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Old 03-11-2005, 08:45 PM   #631
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PaulC2K....I know they can put out a car for every case...I am not asking for that. I am happy that the diff is now included but did not complain when it wasnt. I dont care that the battery strap is not included even though I will be buying one. What bothers me is that when comments are made about parts we would like to see or we express a little disappointment we get responses like Tony's. I understand that they have to release a car that is the best compromise for all racers...but dont tell me that the factory guys dont run the stuff that we or I am talking about. They run it because its better. I would love them to offer a carpet car and an asphalt car that would be great for all involved but I can live with the fact that they dont. You are blowing the comments out of proportion....by saying that we want multiple chassis in the kit and would not be happy with a 3mm etc. I said...I will pay a little more for a kit that fits carpet racing. As it is now, If I want to reproduce Ralph's car that he races on carpet, I have to buy a thick chassis, wider top deck, carpet shock tower, and somehow I must mold my own hard compound arms. If I buy the car to race outdoors, what do I need to do (I dont race outdoors so I am guessing) maybe get a thin chassis? I am guessing that 2.5 is probably good for outdoors considering I am hearing that there was a 2.2? I hope you understand the point.....If an xray FK05 costs the equal of 400.00 US dollars everywhere, how much does it cost to get the car setup for your type of racing. Well, for carpet I can tell you that I have to add at least 125.00 and that wont get my hard arms and with the FK04 it would not have included the diff.....which was impossible to get for some people!!!

As far as your comments about not noticing the difference with the .5 mm difference. Just drive a an xray with a BMI chassis and compare it to stock...if you cant tell the difference then buy a Tmaxx and go have some fun.

The US version of the kit was requested because a huge portion of the sales went to carpet racers and if you race on carpet you know that 99% of the time you dont use a one way. It was great that Ralph requested that change. If you look at the cars built in the US TC4, Losi....they come with diffs. I think that it was less about a us version and more about making a logical decision about the type of racing that is being done here in the states.

As far as my comments that I edited....they were right on...I pulled them because they were not needed on this thread. That is all I will say...if you want examples then PM me.

Bottom line is I am getting the car because I think it is the best out there. I will run the 2.5 chassis during our indoor summer season until I figure out what to do about a thick chassis that I WILL need for the halloween classic, US indoor champs and a few other indoor races.
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Old 03-11-2005, 08:53 PM   #632
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Quote:
Originally posted by NVisible
how much do your bumpers run wannabee?

I emailed you a bit ago, but that must have been on your old addy
Sorry! They are $ 7.50 ea. + 3.50 shipping paypal addy is ([email protected]) I can ship Monday!

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:33 PM   #633
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Originally posted by wannabee
Sorry! They are $ 7.50 ea. + 3.50 shipping paypal addy is ([email protected]) I can ship Monday!

Thanks,

Kevin
Guys...the bumpers are more than worth it! Just order 2 of them and you will be good to go for a long time!!!!
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Old 03-12-2005, 12:30 AM   #634
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I have a Fk04 used the std chassis thought the car was real good outside (lovely)
Then went & purchased the XRC had to file my own slots though spent all that money & i still had to finish off x-ray`s job
couldn`t use the lower roll centre`s in rear bulk head cos they didn`t mill out enough at the back, if you race on slippery floor this was a nice adjustment

So then came along jason from BMI
If you want a job done properly get a small designer
BMI chassis 3mm,350" forward on cells, rear milled out for roll centre,bettery slots chamfered to perfection,edges bevelled for that proffessional look

And the car is much better with a 3mm chassis indoors, reacts a lot quicker ,responds to adjustments better

paulC2K
you can`t tell people to stop moaning about things man, this is how x-ray learn
have you noticed the motor mount being redone to take smaller pinons???

ask tonyv your self & mario if they listen to what was being said
about the gearing

X-ray know how much the USA guy`s love roams on carpet, so they should do there home work for that particular market
RC America is not getting out of this one , they should inform the x-ray boy`s what is good for there market if they haven`t then they just as much to blame for the cockup

And paul when you say `the world expands outside america`
i got that same reply from x-ray `the world doesn`t revolve around me` sounds like a get out clause

american market is rather big though, x-ray have alot of ground to make up after the parts problem over there ,
confidence is being under mined
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Old 03-12-2005, 01:16 AM   #635
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I agree with Mr. JOLLY. I love the way the XRC looks, but the BMI 350 out handles it a bit more. It's stiffer, thinner, lighter... batts are closer together and a little more forward than the XRC. The milling work is top notch. You'd think it was made by Xray.

As far as not noticing a .5mm difference on a chassis... well, I'm no pro, but I sure can tell the diff between my 0.7mm front swaybar vs. a 1mm. I can even feel a difference by changing my front toe by only 0.5 degrees. Now maybe it all goes back to having a good chassis. The stock FK handled good right out of the box. XRC gave even better set-up inputs, but the 350 knocked off about 40g. so it turned faster, weight distribution made it turn harder. Did I mention cheaper too.

I love Xray, and as great as they are, nobody is perfect. But constructive critisim makes people stronger. So if you bitch enough, you can make a difference.
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Old 03-12-2005, 02:44 AM   #636
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Default Thick Chassies hopups and so forth

Hey guys,

Regarding the chassies first.
When the team came to the Snowbirds, Jurai had brought some different chassie thicknesses to the race. This was done from previouse testing results with the T1FK. Last year at the snow birds was the first time when Xray tested thicker chassies it was a succes.

So this year, the team comes with a new car never tested one foam tires before. So the team took the knowledge from last year and brought thick chassies. Most of the team used 3mm cahssies. Some 4 mm chassies was also tested. But what happend? Well becasue of the new topdeck mountings with 4 more stiffeners, Jilles had to go to a softer topdeck, cause it was to stiff, with the 3mm chassies. And we all know what happend, Jilles dominated it. And if you read the race report he wrote, it was at this time his car got even better. I also know that my brother Joel, tested with taking out 2 screws in the front and rear bulkhead to get more flex.

So Jurai, and the team whent thrue the information within the team and desided that it would be better with a kit standard 2.5mm chassie and a top deck that will make the car stiffer then you will need during races even like the Snowbirds. And for the European/Asian rest of the world kit, we have a slightly softer chassies the 2.5mm and the possiblility to take of the 4 topdeck post. So please don't think that we/Team Xray are taking away performance for the costumers.

Then I sometimes get confused. When comparing Team Xray with for ex. Associated. And for instance saying that the TC4 kit is better cause it comes with a diff for starters. Yes good for america but it comes with a diff here in Europe to. So for us pointless.
A nother thing I also think is not fair is that Team Xray gets bad cred on forums for beeing honest with what we test. Have you ever heard of special made TC3 chassies? Not even made from the same mold that the kit chassies comes from...they to use special A arms. and so forth. And this is the same with ALL car manufacturers. We at least try to update the kits, bring new hopups and information to the costumers as fast as we can.

But anyway, I am happy that you will purchase the kit, and I am convinced that you will be very happy with it. And then if you have any comments, suggestions, ideeas or what ever just post them or email or something and we will try to help you in the best way.

best regards
Andreas Myrberg, the son/ driver, not the dad who's name is Anders ;-)
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:02 AM   #637
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well i pre-bought two, so thank you to all the haters that dropped off the lists,
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:02 AM   #638
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Joneser:
For starters, i race Carpet, and as already stated, i have an FK04 and all the XRC bits, the original gear never made it even close to the kit, i even had the XRC items about 3 weeks before i got the kit, so *I* know the difference between 0.5mm on a chassis, *I* know the difference buying 1 kit + a new chassis and top deck costs, *I* know that us folk in the UK pay approx 25% more for items than you've ever paid, so im more than aware of whats needed from buying a kit to something i wish to race with, i know the difference they make, and im FAR from loaded, so i dont chance buy things.

Tony's comments were so far from denying there drivers run different stuff, they have developement duties which mean while they're enjoying the hobby we are, they're testing prototype items at the same time. Tony says they've ran 2.0mm through to 3.0mm, so thats not suggesting this doesnt go on.
There probably are still some items people cant buy, the hard arms being one such item (note: i have them on the rear, f**k knows how lets put it that way, noticed this about 2 month after running it, nothing like the packeted up items i have - dunno why i have this, or how, but i do) and yeah, these would definately be appreciated if we could buy those too.

Just for the record though, not once did i say YOU suggested multiple chassis, i believe the comments were "Someone suggested putting a 2.5mm and a 3mm chassis in the same box" which in now way, shape or form does it suggest i was blowing any comments out of proportion, christ i said 'someone' not you! I think of the whole post, the first line was towards your comment, and that was it, everything else was generalised after that.


Mr Jolly, im beginning to wonder if 'Colin' really is your first name, its looking more like being Dom with half the stuff your coming out with.
How can:
"lets remember the world expands outside the US for a moment ey guys, you've as much right to have a say in what you'd like to see, and at this moment in time, you've got your own version of the kit"
and
"Yeah, have your say, but if they feel option A is better than B, what dya do!"

be translated into Jolly talk to 'you can`t tell people to stop moaning about things man'

Your far to quick to just shoot down rational comments and go straight in with the 1 sided view on things. Just because WE ARE ALL expressing a view, it doesnt make it moaning, as i said we all have as much right to have our say, and thats exactly what forums are there for, but a differing view to YOURS isnt a moan, its a difference of opinion! Theres a huge difference between the two.
The comment about america, just as the one xray said to you, is true, whether we like it or not, companies have to have a compromise, they cant offer ten dozen versions to cover as many requests as possible, and the kit has to be produced for all levels of racers, even though this effects the upper level of racer, theres just far too much variation from what individuals want to run, that its impossible to provide this.
Just because 2 views exist, it doesnt make one of them wrong, it doesnt make one of them right, but when 1 has to be picked, you just have to go with the one you feel is the best, thats what Xray have done. I do more carpet racing than i do outdoor, we both live in England so its no suprise why this is the case, so these comments arent based on the fact that the kit will be released in the perfect setup for me, i've had a 1-way and a spool for ages now, ran both once to try, thats it, back in went the Diff, so i'd rather have 2 diffs (but im looking forward to trying the M-D), i'll be buying the cell strap because i dont fancy having my cells thrown out the car in an aggressive indoor final where cars are knocked here there and everywhere, and as i've said, i run on carpet more than asphalt.
I no way does this kit fit my uses perfectly, but im accepting that what they're releasing is what they feel the larger percentage of customers will want from the kit, its a compromise which works as best on both carpet and asphalt so that your average racer cant pick one up and have it work well, offering a car which works ideally on 1 and badly on the other doesnt work well, the Pro4 was NEVER tested on carpet in the developement phase, thats how much they cared about that half of the RC enthusiasts, it wasnt considered worthy of taking into account when designing it.


Ultimately though, xray have to make compromises, without having to provide various versions of the same kit you need to please as many people as possible, they'll always go with what they feel works best for the customer AND themself too, you cant blame them for that, making 2+ kits means a little extra work for there end, shops ends, and some customers ends. It would be a little messy offering different versions as shops could end up with variations of a kit that they cant sell whilst having the other on back-order, some customers will just grab one without knowing theres a difference (though most wouldnt feel that difference if there not aware theres 2 versions), but there would be small complications.
They have to go with what they feel works best, in this instance theres a few things i'd also rather it had differently, but it doesnt make there choice wrong.


Again, as already pointed out in the previous comment, but making it perfectly clear again, feel free to disagree and put your point across, dont dismiss this as a moan, im not the one saying xray should have done differently (even though the choices they've made could have been different and it suit my needs better), how about discussing our thoughts rather than dismissing them as moaning, nobodys opinion is wrong, were all entitled to that, so have a say, but allow others to do the same too.

We have the responsibility to look for our own best interests, but xray have to try there best to accomodate them all, which is never going to please everyone. It has to be accepted, it doesnt mean they dont listern, and it doesnt mean we cant have an opinion on what there doing, but it means sometimes our opinions cant all be taken into account on 1 decision
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:18 AM   #639
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I definately agree with those comments Andreas, considering the amount of new items that come out of the Xray factory, its amazing how still more is expected from them. I guess its the fault of both parties this is the case, because so many of the tested items have been released that all of them are expected to be.
I must agree on the Hard arms comments that have been made though, its a mystery why these have never been released while they seem to be popular with team drivers. Im sure theres more to it than meets the eye, because it would seem odd to not make something for customers which is proving successful for team drivers, when xray have such a good history of offering aftermarket option parts.

A lot of kits come out in 1 version, and one version only, you take it or leave it, you dont hear them asking for opinions, xray have had MyTSN and the XForum setup purely to listern to opinions, and try and take them into account, picking another opinion over another doesnt mean they're not listerning, only that they went with a differing view.
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:35 AM   #640
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Joneser,

I am sorry if you felt insulted, that was certainly not my intention. Off course the team drivers will use the 3mm chassis when it is needed. I apparantly did not get that across clearly in my previous post. The 3mm chassis will not be made available just for fun. It is an option part that many, like yourself, may want to get to further improve the handling in high to very high grip situations. Since foam tires give significantly more grip than rubber tires, especially on carpet, the team drivers will and do usually run a stiffer setup than they would if grip were lower. Similarly the 2mm chassis is a good option for low grip and/or high temperature conditions and may be an essential upgrade for those that run in these types of conditions as a rule.

What I was responding to was your own implied message that the team drivers would not use the 2.5mm chassis. Well we do and we will, but that does not imply we won't run the 3mm or 2mm chassis when warranted. FYI, the 2.2mm chassis that we used at the Worlds was developed on request of those same US team drivers as they expected it to work better in the Florida heat. They were right too!

As to the arms no comment... at this time that is...
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:36 AM   #641
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Hi All,
I've read a lot of interesting points of view here, then let me try to add something to this discussion. I think that it is clear that it is almost impossible to release a car that work in a perfect way in all race conditions, carpet, low traction alsphalt, hi traction asphalt, rubber tires, foam tires, etc. so I think that at X Ray are honestly tring to come out with a car that suit at least the most possible race conditions.

Some people will buy the car, some other not because they think that another manufacturer is offering a car more suitable for the race he usually attend, but please let me spend a good word on X Ray people attitude.

I think that a big value that we have to take in count is this chance to discuss about the car and the technical solution straight with Team people involved in the car development and also with the car designers.

They come here to answer our questions and they have a forum were Tony and other team drivers as well as Hudy guys answer, quickly, our questions.

I think this is a real advantage when I have to chose a new car, don't you think? I don't see other manufacturer offering the same service, beacuse this is a real Service they do to us, they spend time reading forums and answering and they also listen our suggestion, the low gear issue its a clear example.

Ok they also have their adavntage having an immediately feed back from the customers, but indeed I don't see any other manufacturer share its knowledge with we all end user, they come out with a new car and I'll never now what's behind their technical choice.

So from my point of view I'll continue to race with X Ray because I'm not a Pro driver and I haven't all the time necessary to test ALL (chassis, roll centers, oil springs etc) but with X Ray I have the chanche to share some opinion with some of the fastest guy in the world and get a serious anwer on set up and other questions, in this and in X ray forum you'll get anwers form Tony, Martin Hudy, Mario Hudy, Gilles, Adreas and Anders Myrberg and some more people who for sure know the car far better than we.

Looking around I don't see any other manufacturer offering the same chance, that's my personal point...

Giuseppe
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:58 AM   #642
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"As to the arms no comment... at this time that is..."

Sounds nicer than its probably meant to be interpretted , but hopefully it will be released sometime soonish, though i think most people are heading outdoors so its a little late, but better late than never would definately be the case.
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Old 03-12-2005, 04:10 AM   #643
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paul
compared to Dom `no comment`

Oh no i`m shuting up now

just had more good news with the motor lark
i`m off to my world now bye
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Old 03-12-2005, 07:26 AM   #644
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The one thing that makes XRAY stand out among the rest of the rc manufacturers is that they are creating a great sustainable brand and their attention to detail in their cars. No company out there even comes close to Xray's quality. XRAY has locked up the touring niche hands down. Designing the adjustable diff height adjustment in the FK05 was a great technical advancement. Now, all the other manufacturers have to go back to the drawing board to add the adjustable diff height adjustment feature. The FK05 will set the standard at least for the next few years in the touring scene until some other company can make something with better quality.

Yes, winning races helps sell kits, but building solid quality products will keep consumers as customers. Bottomline, Xray is bringing rc to next level. When someone says "Xray", I immediately think quality. Look at their website, look at their products, look at their customer service, look at their response to supply issues in the US - they created the RC America facility. How many company owners do you know discuss technical issues with their customers online? It's impossible to keep all your customers happy, but by far Xray has made the best attempt at customer service.

I can see quite a few people are pissed off at Xray as well. It's human nature to dislike a company that's a leader in their industry. Negative attitudes towards a company are a good thing. Without the negative attitudes, a company becomes complacent and satisfied with their product. Negative attitudes, if anything, will make a company push the envelope even more.

Can't wait to get the FK05...

So when is Xray going to come out with a pan style 1:12 scale?
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Old 03-12-2005, 08:09 AM   #645
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Quote:
Originally posted by Apex
The one thing that makes XRAY stand out among the rest of the rc manufacturers is that they are creating a great sustainable brand and their attention to detail in their cars. No company out there even comes close to Xray's quality. XRAY has locked up the touring niche hands down. Designing the adjustable diff height adjustment in the FK05 was a great technical advancement. Now, all the other manufacturers have to go back to the drawing board to add the adjustable diff height adjustment feature. The FK05 will set the standard at least for the next few years in the touring scene until some other company can make something with better quality.

Yes, winning races helps sell kits, but building solid quality products will keep consumers as customers. Bottomline, Xray is bringing rc to next level. When someone says "Xray", I immediately think quality. Look at their website, look at their products, look at their customer service, look at their response to supply issues in the US - they created the RC America facility. How many company owners do you know discuss technical issues with their customers online? It's impossible to keep all your customers happy, but by far Xray has made the best attempt at customer service.

I can see quite a few people are pissed off at Xray as well. It's human nature to dislike a company that's a leader in their industry. Negative attitudes towards a company are a good thing. Without the negative attitudes, a company becomes complacent and satisfied with their product. Negative attitudes, if anything, will make a company push the envelope even more.

Can't wait to get the FK05...

So when is Xray going to come out with a pan style 1:12 scale?
Exactly. I know for one that if they made a 1/12th pan car and an electric buggy or truck I would own nothing but XRay kits for everything I race or want to race!
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