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Old 09-26-2005, 08:16 PM   #3751
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The following is a copy/paste from the X-Ray forum. I thought it might be a nice addition to the thread at this point, as the shock building/maintnence on these cars seem to be one of the few sources of concern, questions, or frustration.

What periodic maintenance should I perform on my shocks?

The most important maintenance tasks for keeping consistent shock performance is refilling and bleeding them correctly. Replacing warped/hard rubber bladders and o-rings, scarred piston rods, or shaved/split/loose composite upper and lower ball joints is essential as well.

NOTES:

It is recommended that the shocks be refilled and bled every two to four race days. However, the shocks may fill with small amounts of air during a hard crash where too much stress is applied to the sides of the shock body and top pivot mount. Before each race day, make sure you take the spring off of each shock, hold it up to your ear, and quickly compress the shock rod fully into the body while listening for any air making a "whistling" or "squishy" sound as it passes through the piston holes. If you hear any air, refill and bleed your shocks.
If building or pairing new shocks, always make sure they are the same length first with a shock length measuring tool. If one is longer than the other, adjust the thread of the lower ball joint on the shock rods to match them up to the same desired length.
If installing new rubber bladders, carefully trim the thin excess rubber from the edges of their lips

Shock refill and bleeding process:

1. Unscrew the top aluminum shock cap nut and remove the entire top assembly, including the composite top pivot mount, rubber bladder and foam insert if using them
2. Drain the oil from the shock body
3. Unscrew the end cap from the bottom of the shock body. It is important to dislodge the purple o-ring from the end cap in order to make sure the rod and piston is not pushed back into the shock body when you push down and screw back on the end cap in the bleeding process below. If the purple o-ring is stuck in the end cap, then cover it with shock oil, screw back on the end cap and remove it again. The purple o-ring should dislodge itself, but you might have to do this two or three times to get it out of the end cap.
4. Clean all of the shock parts thoroughly with electric motor cleaner. Make sure you only use a cleaner that DOES NOT leave a residue.

For adjustable pistons, open all four piston holes
With the end cap resting at the bottom of the rod on the composite lower ball joint, fill up the shock body with cleaner and pump the cleaner through the piston holes three or four times by pushing in and pulling out the rod.
Dry all of the parts thoroughly. Using compressed air will ensure all parts are completely dry, but do not use it on the bladder or let the piston bounce up and down when blowing the air into the shock body.

5. Completely cover both the purple and black o rings with shock oil and screw on the end cap
6. Make sure all four holes are open and the piston/rod is at the bottom of the body
7. Fill the shock body one millimeter below the brim with shock oil
8. Air bubble removal

Pump the piston once, no more than half way up and all the way back down. Do not let it come close to the surface of the oil.
Wait 2 seconds
If using the adjustable pistons, close and reopen all three holes to let out little air bubbles caught in between the two parts of the adjustable piston
Rotate the piston 1/4 turn. For adjustable pistons, push the piston up a little so its tab does not catch on the bottom of the shock body before rotating it.
Repeat this process 8 or more times

9. Fill the shock body all the way to the brim with shock oil
10. Prepare the top assembly to be installed as one piece

Place the top aluminum shock cap nut onto the composite top pivot mount with the tab on the pivot mount seated in the notch on the cap nut.
Hold the pivot mount and cap nut assembly upside down, being careful to keep the tab seated in the notch
If using foam inserts, place the insert into the recessed hole on the bottom end of the pivot mount
Place the bladder on the end of the pivot mount and use a thin, but not sharp, tool to gently press the edges of the bladders lip all the way down in between the sides of the cap nut and the pivot mount. The cap nuts threads and bladder lip should hold the entire assembly together, including the seated tab/notch, once you turn the top pivot mount final assembly back upright.

11. Top assembly installation

Hold the shock body with one hand and with the other hand, carefully place the top pivot mount final assembly on top of the body (some oil will overflow) and be careful to keep the assembly from lifting back up
While keeping the assembly as flat as possible with pressure, twist the cap nut counter clockwise until you feel the threads click and see the assembly flatten out. The threads should now be lined up correctly.
Twist the cap nut clockwise with a light force until it is almost fully screwed onto the shock body. If the cap seems to tighten quickly after one or two full turns, then it is crooked and the threads were not aligned correctly. Twist the cap nut back off a few whole turns until you feel the threads click and try again until the cap nut threads all the way on correctly.
Once the cap nut has been tightened most of the way down without becoming misaligned, use more force to tighten it down onto the body firmly. It is important not to tighten the top assembly down too much. If you do, the lip of the rubber bladder will be compressed too much and it will not be able to absorb the stress between the top pivot mount and the shock body during a hard crash, which may result in air leaking into the shock. However, if the cap nut is not tightened enough, it may unscrew itself when you try to adjust the ride height using the threaded spring collars. One full turn more of the cap nut than when you first feel the pressure from the rubber lip starting to compress should be correct.

12. Bottom end cap bleeding

For adjustable pistons, make sure all four piston holes are open
Turn the shock upside down
Push the piston in as far as it will go (the pressure may not let it go in that far) and hold it there for two seconds
Let the piston rebound by itself all the way out. For adjustable pistons, you may need to twist the rod a little for the piston tab to seat itself into one of the notches in the bottom of the shock body and it will rebound out approximately one more millimeter.
Let the piston sit for a few minutes to let any remaining air rise up to the bottom of the shock body in preparation for it to be bled out through the rod hole on the bottom of the shock
Measure the distance in millimeters from the threaded aluminum ride height adjustment collar to the beginning of the threads on the end of the shock rod
Unscrew end cap and let the oil and any remaining air bubbles bleed out until the shock rod recesses into the shock body 2 to 5 millimeters exactly. The more you allow the rod to recess, the less rebound pressure your shocks will have. You will need a good eye and patience for this step. While it is bleeding, lightly tap the side of the ride height collar with something to dislodge any air bubbles and quicken the bleeding process. Make sure you check the rod distance every couple of seconds since air bubbles escaping may make the rod recess quicker than expected. It is normal for the rod not to recess initially even though oil is bleeding out, but it will start to recess quicker as more oil bleeds out. With thicker weight oil, the rod will take more time to start recessing.
Once the rod has recessed to the desired amount, screw back on the end cap and clean the excess oil off the outside of the shock with motor cleaner

13. Place each front or rear shock pair (with all four holes open when using adjustable pistons) on a shock measuring tool, fully compress them and check the rebound damping speed and how far each extends itself to see if they are the same. If one shock is faster and extends more than the other, perform the following final bleeding process to the faster shock:

Take the shock off the shock measuring tool and turn it upside down
Push the piston in as far as it will go and let it rebound and extend out by itself. Do not pull it out any further. The rod will extend itself past the point where it was when you tightened down the end cap in the previous bleeding process.
Unscrew the end cap
Tap the ride height collar and bleed out more oil until the rod recesses a quarter of a millimeter below where it was when you tightened down the end cap in the previous bleeding process
Screw back on the end cap, test the rebound damping speed again for the pair and repeat the final bleeding process if necessary

14. Place a little amount of light oil onto the threads above the aluminum ride height collar and let it soak in. This will keep the collars from binding on the shock body threads when adjusting ride height.

NOTE: It is normal for some oil to bleed out of the bottom of the shock during the first few runs of the car. However, they will equalize at the right pressure without letting any air bubbles in if the O rings are still in good condition.
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Old 09-27-2005, 03:16 AM   #3752
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Anyone want to get the best shocks possible for the X-ray .... do yourselves all a favour and buy the new Serpent shocks (U need 2 sets rears 903165). They fit directly on and are the smoothest best working shocks I have ever seen. It took me exactly 4mins to fill with oil and assemble 4 shocks with no air bubbles and exactly the same rebound. They are just awesome.
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:02 AM   #3753
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do you have picture of the shocks unassembled? or exploded view of the manual- just want to see the design compared to HPI or Tamiya shocks.

Btw, the shocks does not look like an xray design and more of a 3-racing design but I could be wrong though...


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Old 09-27-2005, 04:09 AM   #3754
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I am running spool and I want the car to turn in more and cure the mid corner push off power. Basically it is a stock set up with light blue springs FR and white RR. Will using a 6 degrees steering block remedy this? Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:43 AM   #3755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acutts
Anyone want to get the best shocks possible for the X-ray .... do yourselves all a favour and buy the new Serpent shocks (U need 2 sets rears 903165). They fit directly on and are the smoothest best working shocks I have ever seen. It took me exactly 4mins to fill with oil and assemble 4 shocks with no air bubbles and exactly the same rebound. They are just awesome.
The biggest question are they internally adjustable?
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:14 AM   #3756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centax error!
do you have picture of the shocks unassembled? or exploded view of the manual- just want to see the design compared to HPI or Tamiya shocks.

Btw, the shocks does not look like an xray design and more of a 3-racing design but I could be wrong though...


CentaX-ray05
The shock is SERPENT and is completely compatible ... size and fixings exactly the same .. just take xray off and put serpent on. They come pre built and the top is a solid piece. The bottom unscrews and you fill with oil and the it self bleeds when you screw the bottom on.

I will take a pic of the second set I am getting tomorrow to put on my second car.

They are definitely nothing like a 3 racing design ... never seen anything like them before.
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:16 AM   #3757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeelcold
The biggest question are they internally adjustable?
No they are not internally adjustable which does not bother me as I used fixed pistons in xray shocks anyway. It is so easy to change the pistons over in these that there would be no point.....

No shock peeing oil, no air bubbles and messing about trying to bleed etc .... these are the business.
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:58 AM   #3758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac
Good luck to you TeamGP. Hope to see you again as I did in Frederick, MD. Probably down at Debbie's with some others from Maryland. Me and my Tamiya shocked and front diffed out FK'05. Seriously there is talk about coming down soon. This time I'm running 19T. Hope to see you soon.
Any dates yet? How about October 22nd? That should be enough time for us to gain an edge on yall with the current layout.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:03 AM   #3759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Here is the simple reasoning why I decided to go down the one-way path for carpet racing, versus the traditional adjustable limited slip differential...
I forgot to add one more setup option that helped with issue #4 in the previous post. With the on power push problem, one-ways have not been useful for tight tracks. Another option I used to address this issue was minimum wheelbase. I found that the FK05 actually became more stable, the more I shortened the wheelbase. I believe this comes from placing more weight over the FK05's light rear axle. With the minimum wheelbase, the cars steering arc tightened very nicely and the car handles sharp turns with very surprisingly less steering lock (EPA) and ackerman effect.

When I used a setup somewhat similar to this with my original FK, I had to use hole #2 and even #1 on the steering blocks for increased ackerman effect to turn sharp mid corner, but this made the car scrub a little too much speed mid corner and the difference was noticeable when the FK05's came out. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I'm able to use the carpet spec hole#3 for minimum ackerman effect when using this type of setup with the FK05.

For Saturday's race I had to use the extension plates with the standard composite blocks. But the angle of rods added bump steer when mounted on top of the plates with no shims. In order to get the rods at the correct angle to eliminate bump steer, I had to mount 2mm plastic shims around the button head screw shaft in hole #2 between the plates and the steering mount holes, use longer M3x8 hex screws without heads in hole #1 and then mount the steering rods underneath the extension plates. I then had to shave a little material off of the side of the steering blocks outside of hole#2 as well as off of the side of the steering rod ball ends to keep them from rubbing.

All of the headache with bump steer above can be eliminated by simply using the LEFT and RIGHT 3 hole composite steering blocks which I should be receiving this week. I threw this car together last week with a lot of my old used parts from asphalt season and had to improvise for Saturdays race.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:42 AM   #3760
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Not sure about dates but the 22nd I may be doing something called work that morning. People are talking about the first weekend in November. I personally hope it's a new layout that you guys aren't even used to yet. It's all about set up.... right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
Any dates yet? How about October 22nd? That should be enough time for us to gain an edge on yall with the current layout.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:55 AM   #3761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac
Not sure about dates but the 22nd I may be doing something called work that morning. People are talking about the first weekend in November. I personally hope it's a new layout that you guys aren't even used to yet. It's all about set up.... right?
It would be nice to have a new layout. However, the shop had just changed it two weeks before everyone deserted to asphalt for the summer and I'm not sure if they'd be willing to change it with little more than one months use.

The official forum used for Debbies:

http://techtalk.teamtrinity.com/tt/s...&goto=lastpost
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Last edited by teamgp; 09-27-2005 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:57 AM   #3762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centax error!
I am running spool and I want the car to turn in more and cure the mid corner push off power. Basically it is a stock set up with light blue springs FR and white RR. Will using a 6 degrees steering block remedy this? Thanks in advance.
You might try raising the rear ride height by .5mm and/or lowering the rear downstop setting by 1mm for more droop.

Does it look like your front tires are wearing exactly in the middle, or more on the inner or outer edges?
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:04 AM   #3763
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Thanks Teamgp for the suggestion on the belt tension. You always have great answers on stuff. I always read your posts. They are very informative. I like your idea's. Some people just cant think outside the box. You never know what might work untill you try it.

Another question. A local fast guy who does not run a X-Ray. He runs a corally told me to get these and use the outer most hole. He just said trust me definitly get them. I know they would change the ackerman setting but what exactly will it do if I use the outer most hole? Here they are..

http://www.teamxray.com/xshop/produc...kategoria=1297
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:22 AM   #3764
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TeamGP- http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78063
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:06 AM   #3765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRCRACER123
Another question. A local fast guy who does not run a X-Ray. He runs a corally told me to get these and use the outer most hole. He just said trust me definitly get them. I know they would change the ackerman setting but what exactly will it do if I use the outer most hole? Here they are...
The third hole will decrease the amount of difference in turning arcs between the inside and outside front wheels (i.e. the inside wheel will not turn as sharp). With high traction tires and surfaces, such as foam on carpet, decreasing the arc difference will reduce the amount of speed srubbed mid corner. However, the car must be setup to provide sufficient on power steering. With the original FK, team drivers usually had to move the left saddlepack forward to place more weight over the front axle. The weight distribution of the FK05 chassis is more forward biased and provides enough on power steering to be used effectively with the reduction of ackerman effect from the third hole. When switching from hole#2 to #3, you usually need to dial down your steering EPA or dual rate by 5 to 10 points. There is an article about ackerman on the XRAY forum that goes into more detail.

Thanks for the support!
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