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Old 08-21-2012, 04:06 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by steve.breuer View Post
I like how the IIC track is similar (yet evolved) over the years.
It's kind of like the Masters Golf Tournament.

I'm signed up for Amateur and Mod TC.
Pray for me.
A drug recommendation might be in order for this old man too.
Not sure if that is permitted. Mod is for the best of the best. Amateur is for us slow guys not for top tier drivers. At the local level it isn't permitted. Can someone please clarify this?
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #497
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Not sure if that is permitted. Mod is for the best of the best. Amateur is for us slow guys not for top tier drivers. At the local level it isn't permitted. Can someone please clarify this?
Hell, i signed up for Mod TC, and i know I'm not even close to the best of the best. I signed up for mod 1/12 to, and i qualify for amateur as i have no sponsors. I'm pretty sure anybody can sign up for anything, this isn't the invitational class at the Reedy Race.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:29 PM   #498
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Hell, i signed up for Mod TC, and i know I'm not even close to the best of the best. I signed up for mod 1/12 to, and i qualify for amateur as i have no sponsors. I'm pretty sure anybody can sign up for anything, this isn't the invitational class at the Reedy Race.
I've done Reedy, that is why I asked.

If you can drive well in mod you shouldn't be in amateur even if you qualify by the rules. It goes against good nature. If you are good enough to drive mod, my hat is off to you. But, if you can't, why ruin someone else's good run? Just a thought.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:59 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Stratus Racer View Post
I've done Reedy, that is why I asked.

If you can drive well in mod you shouldn't be in amateur even if you qualify by the rules. It goes against good nature. If you are good enough to drive mod, my hat is off to you. But, if you can't, why ruin someone else's good run? Just a thought.
The previous page is all about going against good nature...
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:05 PM   #500
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Cool

At $100+ per class
Plus travel expenses, etc
Any non sponsored driver can run what ever they choose

I do miss the days of just 12th stock, and 12th mod though
Back then you raced with all the bad dudes !
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:17 PM   #501
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The last page is all about going against good nature...
Point being? BTW, this is the last page.

MY first question still stands. Can anyone of the race organizers clarify if a racer can race in Amateur and Mod Classes? That is all I asked.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:20 PM   #502
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At $100+ per class
Plus travel expenses, etc
Any non sponsored driver can run what ever they choose


I do miss the days of just 12th stock, and 12th mod though
Back then you raced with all the bad dudes !
This statement makes the most sense. Even If I see it as unfair to amateur it makes the most sense.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:49 PM   #503
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stratus racer wrote:
Not sure if that is permitted. Mod is for the best of the best. Amateur is for us slow guys not for top tier drivers. At the local level it isn't permitted. Can someone please clarify this?

If you can drive well in mod you shouldn't be in amateur even if you qualify by the rules. It goes against good nature. If you are good enough to drive mod, my hat is off to you. But, if you can't, why ruin someone else's good run? Just a thought.
This will be my 4th year to the IIC Vegas race. I've signed up for Amateur every year. I was BQ my first year, TQ (finished 4th) my second, Qualified 4th and finished 4th, last year (I think). I've never raced MOD TC in a Big Race, unless you count our local HS "Fall Classic" race (last year). Paul and Drew blessed us with their presence. I believe I was lapped by Paul 2 times.

I interpret the Amateur Class as being for Non-Professional (Non-Sponsored) Drivers. Like in Golf, there are Amateurs that play in Pro Tournaments. They are not Novice. My guess is every past winner of the Amateur class would not have been classified as a “slow guy”. So does that mean the winners were going against “good nature”. If Scotty doesn’t want me in one or the other Classes… of course I will abide by his wishes.

I could have signed up for one of the slower MOD Classes and raced against a few of the best drivers. I just thought it would be more fun to race against ALL of the best drivers. Like I said earlier… pray for me.

I don’t think I stand a chance against Mike Haynes (who I sat across from and next to Hanulec at my second IIC – great guys BTW), but I think I can beat Drew. Have I set the bar too low?

I'm hoping I only get lapped by Paul once.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #504
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This will be my 4th year to the IIC Vegas race. I've signed up for Amateur every year. I was BQ my first year, TQ (finished 4th) my second, Qualified 4th and finished 4th, last year (I think). I've never raced MOD TC in a Big Race, unless you count our local HS "Fall Classic" race (last year). Paul and Drew blessed us with their presence. I believe I was lapped by Paul 2 times.

I interpret the Amateur Class as being for Non-Professional (Non-Sponsored) Drivers. Like in Golf, there are Amateurs that play in Pro Tournaments. They are not Novice. My guess is every past winner of the Amateur class would not have been classified as a “slow guy”. So does that mean the winners were going against “good nature”. If Scotty doesn’t want me in one or the other Classes… of course I will abide by his wishes.

I could have signed up for one of the slower MOD Classes and raced against a few of the best drivers. I just thought it would be more fun to race against ALL of the best drivers. Like I said earlier… pray for me.

I don’t think I stand a chance against Mike Haynes (who I sat across from and next to Hanulec at my second IIC – great guys BTW), but I think I can beat Drew. Have I set the bar too low?

I'm hoping I only get lapped by Paul once.
Of course! We all just want to have fun, see our friends and make new ones. I understand your point about getting lapped. I get lapped at just about every race that I enter and it is less fun than not getting lapped. If I come in dead last but have fun doing so I'll be fine with it but it will be a long drive home. My goal right now is to just not finish last. If I do decent then the drive home will be a more pleasant one.

Pray for you, that can be arranged. I will though once I meet you at IIC.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:38 PM   #505
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I've done Reedy, that is why I asked.

If you can drive well in mod you shouldn't be in amateur even if you qualify by the rules. It goes against good nature. If you are good enough to drive mod, my hat is off to you. But, if you can't, why ruin someone else's good run? Just a thought.
so I shouldn't of gone to the worlds eh? how are you going to get better if you don't start at the back and work your way forward
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:47 PM   #506
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so I shouldn't of gone to the worlds eh? how are you going to get better if you don't start at the back and work your way forward
Go where you please to go. Read the previous posts to see what what asked.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:23 PM   #507
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Steve is plenty good enough to be running Mod Sedan at a big race... he is certainly not going to be ruining anyone's run.

You can't fault someone for playing by the rules, whether you like them or not. This is a big race, everyone wants to show up and do their best... and hopefully bring home some hardware. And that means you will have "fast, but non-sponsored" guys running Amateur.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:34 PM   #508
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I think what some of you are asking for is to "race with people with similar ability" (it's a fair request) .. and you assume that class structure is there to seperate the ability/skill levels. Maybe it should work like that, but it often doesn't, at least not in the US.

Right now, nothing prevents a person capable of making the A-main in mod from running stock or superstock, etc. It's personal choice. Most people figure that if they run a "slower" class they will be matched up with people of similar ability and there is a hope of an A-main finish. Once they see people with wins in mod or professional racers in their "stock" class, their hopes start to fade as the pro entries start to add up.

Nothing is there to "make" people move up. Why not run a class where you have better odds of winning? That's the theory anyway. This is probably the reason why we don't have very many mod drivers vs. other countries and why you see the same people in the A-main of stock year after year, event to event. I'd assume it also discourages those people that are trying to move up in the ranks.

Sponsorships are not a good way to determine skill. I know of a couple of great racers that are not sponsored because they choose not to be. They like the ability to choose whatever equipment they want at any time they want, and they would be the first to admit that they don't belong in the amatuer class.

IMO .. it's not totally about speed either .. If you told everyone in amateur that they would be racing against people with similar ability (1-3 years in the hobby), and the handout would be a 13.5, I don't think anyone would complain about it being too fast. People with similar ability with the same power, game on.

Not sure what the solution is, other than some kind of points/rating system. But that is for another thread.

$0.02

PS .. Can't wait to see Hara in 13.5 blinky LOL.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:43 PM   #509
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I think what some of you are asking for is to "race with people with similar ability" (it's a fair request) .. and you assume that class structure is there to seperate the ability/skill levels. Maybe it should work like that, but it often doesn't, at least not in the US.

Right now, nothing prevents a person capable of making the A-main in mod from running stock or superstock, etc. It's personal choice. Most people figure that if they run a "slower" class they will be matched up with people of similar ability and there is a hope of an A-main finish. Once they see people with wins in mod or professional racers in their "stock" class, their hopes start to fade as the pro entries start to add up.

Nothing is there to "make" people move up. Why not run a class where you have better odds of winning? That's the theory anyway. This is probably the reason why we don't have very many mod drivers vs. other countries and why you see the same people in the A-main of stock year after year, event to event. I'd assume it also discourages those people that are trying to move up in the ranks.

Sponsorships are not a good way to determine skill. I know of a couple of great racers that are not sponsored because they choose not to be. They like the ability to choose whatever equipment they want at any time they want, and they would be the first to admit that they don't belong in the amatuer class.

IMO .. it's not totally about speed either .. If you told everyone in amateur that they would be racing against people with similar ability (1-3 years in the hobby), and the handout would be a 13.5, I don't think anyone would complain about it being too fast. People with similar ability with the same power, game on.

Not sure what the solution is, other than some kind of points/rating system. But that is for another thread.

$0.02

PS .. Can't wait to see Hara in 13.5 blinky LOL.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:09 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by ByteStream View Post
I think what some of you are asking for is to "race with people with similar ability" (it's a fair request) .. and you assume that class structure is there to seperate the ability/skill levels. Maybe it should work like that, but it often doesn't, at least not in the US.

Right now, nothing prevents a person capable of making the A-main in mod from running stock or superstock, etc. It's personal choice. Most people figure that if they run a "slower" class they will be matched up with people of similar ability and there is a hope of an A-main finish. Once they see people with wins in mod or professional racers in their "stock" class, their hopes start to fade as the pro entries start to add up.

Nothing is there to "make" people move up. Why not run a class where you have better odds of winning? That's the theory anyway. This is probably the reason why we don't have very many mod drivers vs. other countries and why you see the same people in the A-main of stock year after year, event to event. I'd assume it also discourages those people that are trying to move up in the ranks.

Sponsorships are not a good way to determine skill. I know of a couple of great racers that are not sponsored because they choose not to be. They like the ability to choose whatever equipment they want at any time they want, and they would be the first to admit that they don't belong in the amatuer class.

IMO .. it's not totally about speed either .. If you told everyone in amateur that they would be racing against people with similar ability (1-3 years in the hobby), and the handout would be a 13.5, I don't think anyone would complain about it being too fast. People with similar ability with the same power, game on.

Not sure what the solution is, other than some kind of points/rating system. But that is for another thread.

$0.02

PS .. Can't wait to see Hara in 13.5 blinky LOL.
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