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Old 01-27-2005, 11:18 AM   #1
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Default How come nobody allows brushless to run in MOD?

A lot of tracks that run open mod touring do NOT allow brushless motors to run in that class. I'm just curious why they're not allowed.

Is it the belief that they're faster than the lower turn brushed motors?

Any insight would be appreciated
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:47 AM   #2
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Whenever you have a difference in the specs of a car other than the make of the chassis, people will not want to run them together. I raced a lot of offroad and wondered why when there were only 3 entries each of the stock buggy and stock truck classes that they didnt just run them together. The answer is if someone with an open mod gets beat by a brushless, they will say oh well he didnt really beat me, he has a brushless of course he is faster. People would make these kind of remarks and it would only create conflict, even if the lower turn mod and brushless were equal, knowing that the other guy has something different in his car will make the guy who gets beat think that there is an unfair advantage. same with the buggy and truck thing, if i get beat with a truck by a buggy, i could have a right to say oh the buggy's turn in better and are narrower, so that guy couldnt have pulled off that pass in a truck.

There is enough conflict in rc racing as there is and running two separate classes as one would just be asking for trouble
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Old 01-27-2005, 01:23 PM   #3
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Our local off road track runs brushless with the mod guys all the time. They're noT any faster, just have a different power band. The only advantage I'd see is in mod TC because of the efficiantcy advantage, you could run more punched and not worry about dumping where guys running 7 turn mods have to kind of take it easy a lottle to make run time some times. But they are by no means faster than a low turn mod.

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Old 01-27-2005, 01:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: How come nobody allows brushless to run in MOD?

Quote:
Originally posted by Gutter Ball
A lot of tracks that run open mod touring do NOT allow brushless motors to run in that class. I'm just curious why they're not allowed.

Is it the belief that they're faster than the lower turn brushed motors?

Any insight would be appreciated
The only reason is not understanding. Not understanding that at a point too much power isn't better and that Open Mod is really open.
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Old 01-27-2005, 02:16 PM   #5
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Our club allows us to run brushless in Mod, speed wise a 7-8 turn brushed to still quicker, but with the maintainance factor. I think it is starting to be more accepted as Novak and LRP are now on the bandwagon and surely a few more biggies will follow.
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Old 01-27-2005, 02:27 PM   #6
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First of all let me say that I am a brushless fan in theory. Thats said I think its a good idea that the independent race promoters aren't running combined races.

Here's why:

1. There is no currently available, legal brushless motor than is on par with a low turn brushed mod.

2. Current brushless speed controls barely survive with the current 5800Kv motors. Thermal shutdowns are common when really fast guys use them in sedans.

3. The race promoters also see the advantages of brushless motors. However, they don't want to erode consumer confidence in a new product by setting them up to fail by racing them head to head with open mods.

Derek - Keep in mind that the only brushless motors legal for R/C Racing are the Novak and Reedy offerings. For better or worse independent races still follow 90% of the ROAR rule books.
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdrianM
First of all let me say that I am a brushless fan in theory. Thats said I think its a good idea that the independent race promoters aren't running combined races.

Here's why:

1. There is no currently available, legal brushless motor than is on par with a low turn brushed mod.

2. Current brushless speed controls barely survive with the current 5800Kv motors. Thermal shutdowns are common when really fast guys use them in sedans.

3. The race promoters also see the advantages of brushless motors. However, they don't want to erode consumer confidence in a new product by setting them up to fail by racing them head to head with open mods.

Derek - Keep in mind that the only brushless motors legal for R/C Racing are the Novak and Reedy offerings. For better or worse independent races still follow 90% of the ROAR rule books.
The reason that BL has not taken off has to do with the major players not jumping on the bandwagon, people expecially the americans are brand name hunters, if it is not put out by associated, losi, novak or LRP then it cant be any good. The other reason i feel is that the predominantly german companies that produce the competitive BL systems done even appear to help themselves, where is the advertising, the up to date ENGLISH websites etc etc.

I have been runn in a hacker motor and initially a hacker comp speedie, and now a schultze UForce for over 2 years, in this time i have seen friends go through dozens of motors and a handful of speedies. I race at the same track as Danjoy, and the brushless is equivalent ot a good 8 turn motor, and with the ability to program the Schultze the driving feel is pretty much identical to a normal mod motor.

Adrians point 2 is totally incorrect, i have rarely had thermal issues even running in australia's 40 degree days during summer, meanwhile i have seen countless thermalled brushed speedies, a number of blown brushed speedies, and countless burnt up and blown brushed motors.

regarding legality, it is my opinion the rules are there to cover the racers requirements, not set the boundaries for which the racer should run. At the grassroots if people were to adopt BL, then the bigger companies and their lapdogs the governing bodies would have no choice but to standardise BL.
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
1. There is no currently available, legal brushless motor than is on par with a low turn brushed mod.
By this you mean there isn't a novak that is on par with an 8 turn mod since novak wrote the current rules. In the wider view there are motors than can keep up with 7 and 8 turn motors. The Plettenberg Shadow, Hacker C40 6s and 7s, and a few others.

I think there should be an truly "open mod" class where brushless and brushed can run together. If they can't, it really can't be called open mod, it can only be called mod.
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by kufman
I think there should be an truly "open mod" class where brushless and brushed can run together.
Reminds me of the turbo F1 days or the GTP/CanAm series. Those were great cars!
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:39 PM   #10
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I said there were no legal motors. To be legal they have to be of a 3 pole slotted stator design. I didn't write the rules...Bob Novak did...lol!

The ROAR open mod class is open to brushless motors for 2005. As long as they meet the above spec.

On Hacker motors/speedos. They are great in monster trucks but in a sedan where you need fine throttle and brake control they are far from ideal. Several top drivers have tried Hacker systems. The have great power but lack the feel necessary to be a competitive system. We had a 6 turn system for a while. It used the old big speedo so we didnt bother to install it. It would have compromized the cars balance and Rx location.

Besercoe - I was talking about the only speed control that is currently available that has decent throttle control...Novak.
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:56 PM   #11
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Brushless will slowly grow in popularity. It takes a lot of time for a transition like this to happen.
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:48 PM   #12
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I think Brushless is the reason you are seeing the V2 and the long run brushes from the other companies. i think they looked around and said ummm we have to come up with somethin that will compete. Think about it....before brushless came back around it was 1 run and done for most motors. new brushes every run. I cant wait to run mod touring in a competetive situation.....ive never had a chance to run a 7-1 in an actual race LOL
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:52 PM   #13
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Low turn mods are a lot of fun to race. Especially out door asphalt where you can really let em wind out and get up some serious speed. I'm going to be testing the CS brushes for myself this weekend if I get them in. It will be nice to be able to run brushes more than once.
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:55 PM   #14
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I went back to offroad but I do plan on getting another touring car this spring and making the occasional race. My main focus is to get ready for the Off road Mod Nats in July.
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:00 PM   #15
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When I was trying to run some off road seriously for a little while, brushless in open mod was pretty common and I actually liked it. It took some time to get used to and I really liked not having to cut motors in that dirty environment (on road guy, you know) I think brushless may catch on a little quicker in the off road arena quicker though. It seemed to fit the driving style needed for our track fairly well.
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