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Old 01-20-2005, 08:56 PM   #61
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Default Real testing!

Almost none of the so called "testing" associated with RC is worth all that much. Some of it raises interesting questions worth exploring but for whatever reason the kind of tests that provide truly useful information are few and far between. If they are being conducted the company doing them are not sharing them with the public.

Without going into a lot of detail you need to understand the reasons/need for 'double blind' testing and how to design reliable experiments.

I was very involved with High End Stereo for several years. The rejection of double blind testing has turned the High End Stereo business into one vast fraud and con game perpetrated on people with more money than common sense.


From the posts I read on this board it does not sound like there is much of a desire for reliable testing of RC technology.

As long as people prefer talking about 'more punch', to telling us actual acceleration in meters per second per second, then there won't be much science in the hobby.
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:59 PM   #62
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will the fan kit for the tc4 fit on my tc3? if so where can i order one from?
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:13 PM   #63
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Default Re: Real testing!

Quote:
Originally posted by imjonah
Almost none of the so called "testing" associated with RC is worth all that much. Some of it raises interesting questions worth exploring but for whatever reason the kind of tests that provide truly useful information are few and far between. If they are being conducted the company doing them are not sharing them with the public.

Without going into a lot of detail you need to understand the reasons/need for 'double blind' testing and how to design reliable experiments.

I was very involved with High End Stereo for several years. The rejection of double blind testing has turned the High End Stereo business into one vast fraud and con game perpetrated on people with more money than common sense.


From the posts I read on this board it does not sound like there is much of a desire for reliable testing of RC technology.

As long as people prefer talking about 'more punch', to telling us actual acceleration in meters per second per second, then there won't be much science in the hobby.

someone got a thesaurus for christmas!
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:49 PM   #64
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Default Fan Connections?

Which way is better in powering the 5 volt fans:

connect to receiver = Fan will be running once ESC is turned on
connect to motor wires = Fan will run only when motor is running.

I will be running stock motors.
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:49 AM   #65
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Connect it to the reciever.
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:04 AM   #66
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well, in my case I am out of spots unless I Y-Harness my BEC since I run a PT.....
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Old 01-21-2005, 09:58 AM   #67
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Default Re: Real testing!

Quote:
Originally posted by imjonah
Almost none of the so called "testing" associated with RC is worth all that much. ... Without going into a lot of detail you need to understand the reasons/need for 'double blind' testing and how to design reliable experiments.... From the posts I read on this board it does not sound like there is much of a desire for reliable testing of RC technology...As long as people prefer talking about 'more punch', to telling us actual acceleration in meters per second per second, then there won't be much science in the hobby.
You aren't very reasonable now are you? lol

The resources necessary for accurate scientific testing are rarely available to common racers. Furthermore the testing practices you describe are most appropriate for human interpretation of results whereas most RC comparisons are made based upon the results of rigid technological assessments. Thats not to say that there is no room for double blind experimentation within RC, but rather that the added accuracy of results is most likely much smaller in benefit than the costs necessary to implement such experimentation.

Additionally, this type of testing when required is most likely to be performed by companies behind closed doors. So is it really that difficult to accept that racers on R/C forums sharing experiences (not official testing) is a good thing? Have you ever asked a local fast guy what springs, oil, motor, gear, etc that they are running? Thats basically whats going on here. lol

No need to worry about the scientific future of RC just yet. lol
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:26 AM   #68
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will the fan kit for the tc4 fit on my tc3? if so where can i order one from?
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:37 AM   #69
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Default Re: Re: Real testing!

Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
No need to worry about the scientific future of RC just yet. lol
Hmmm...I don't know about that. The Japanese racers that I know of are very dedicated to the hobby. I've seen wind tunnel reports on different bodies to measuring g forces. I'm in no way a scientific type of guy...well...kind of (lab tech). I really don't get too caught up in all the scientific mumbo-jumbo because I have more important things to concentrate on......like my driving. .

But the future is just around the corner!!!!
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:53 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by kh15
will the fan kit for the tc4 fit on my tc3? if so where can i order one from?
Not directly but you might be able to mod your TC3 to get it to fit. The TC4 chassis has holes molded into the bottom. This allows the fan kit to pull air from under the car. You might be able to make it fit in the TC3 and make your own holes with a dremel or a mill.
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Old 01-21-2005, 11:12 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by TigeRyan
well, in my case I am out of spots unless I Y-Harness my BEC since I run a PT.....
Not sure if you have tried your third or aux input on your receiver I know on my KoPropo 302f the one that came with the Helios that it operates the same as the receiver Batt input. I have found that a fan is not really a item that is needed in stock or 19T as this only gives the driver the ability to over gear the motor because they are getting cooler runs. I find that if you gear your motor properly (the right gear ratio) you don;t have the problem of over heating, with one exception. I was out at 4 Fun Hobbies yesterday and ran my new Intellect 3600 with a Paradigm roar Stock motor geared 8.18 ratio in my Yokomo SD Rayspeed, it ran for 9.5 minutes strait and the motor was hot (190*F) I like 150* for the most part. Now if I would have pulled my car off after 5 minutes I can garentee the motor is right in the 140* - 160* that just what I have found. Now for Mod I can see the need as those things put out some heat. But for stock or 19T just gear your car right.
Hope this helps,
Stephen <><
P.S. I will try a fan next week to see if it helps with the 9.5 minute pack.
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Old 01-21-2005, 11:15 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
Not directly but you might be able to mod your TC3 to get it to fit. The TC4 chassis has holes molded into the bottom. This allows the fan kit to pull air from under the car. You might be able to make it fit in the TC3 and make your own holes with a dremel or a mill.
that tc4 sounds better and better eveytime i come on this forum!
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:04 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Shookie
... the motor was hot (190*F) I like 150* for the most part. Now if I would have pulled my car off after 5 minutes I can garentee the motor is right in the 140* - 160* that just what I have found. Now for Mod I can see the need as those things put out some heat. But for stock or 19T just gear your car right.
Stephen, the track layout last week was basically a giant C shaped oval with a very tight 10 turn infield. I always aim for 150* also. So in this case, the straight away with the 2 large full speed sweepers, I tried gearing 1-2 teeth higher for the straight. It felt find in the infield for about 2.5-3 mins., but after that the motors felt super flat and I temped them at 178*-189*. I then went back down 2 teeth and got temps around 156*. Car was punchy in the corners, but then it lacked straight away speed.

I tested with a tuned Monster, Fantom LE Epic and another tuned ROAR Epic. Lap times varied:
33T/128T best laps were 11.6, after running hot the last 2 min. best was 12.0.
31T/128T average laps were 12.0

I checked my Fusion 1.185+ packs on a CDR5000 and they were all matched at about 98%.

So I really can't wait till sat. to test the fan ideas. I hope that the track layout stays close to the same so I can more accurately figure out any +/- results. But from what I'm reading, it looks like racers are getting good results.
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:24 PM   #74
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This is a pic of a 40mm 5v fan on my Mi2. I have noticed reduced temps especially in mod or stock when geared high. I have been running it straight off the cells for 6 months with no problems.

ps i really should have cleaned the car before taking a pic!
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by kidDynomite
Stephen, the track layout last week was basically a giant C shaped oval with a very tight 10 turn infield. I always aim for 150* also. So in this case, the straight away with the 2 large full speed sweepers, I tried gearing 1-2 teeth higher for the straight. It felt find in the infield for about 2.5-3 mins., but after that the motors felt super flat and I temped them at 178*-189*. I then went back down 2 teeth and got temps around 156*. Car was punchy in the corners, but then it lacked straight away speed.

I tested with a tuned Monster, Fantom LE Epic and another tuned ROAR Epic. Lap times varied:
33T/128T best laps were 11.6, after running hot the last 2 min. best was 12.0.
31T/128T average laps were 12.0

I checked my Fusion 1.185+ packs on a CDR5000 and they were all matched at about 98%.

So I really can't wait till sat. to test the fan ideas. I hope that the track layout stays close to the same so I can more accurately figure out any +/- results. But from what I'm reading, it looks like racers are getting good results.
I believe it has changed then cause yesterday it was a dual S design with a small dump out on the inner strait. I felt very quick, but seemed to get up to full speed about 1/3rd the strait but the motor didn;t feel flat at all. I think I wil try another ESC setup also next time out to see what I can create. I have the GM SX12, lots of setups.
Take Care and GOD Bless
Stephen <><
I still think it is a waste of weight for stock or 19T at least until the 100+degree days out there...sheesh I can hardly wait LOL.
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