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Old 01-16-2005, 05:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Re: The only reason for the increasing costs involved in keeping up this hobby......

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Originally posted by Mabuchi540
Ok then limit anything but mod to 1500 non matched packs (and perhaps mod to 3300 and 8 minutes which would effectively slow them down to last and reduce wear some what).
Unfortunitely, there is not way to police the matching of battery packs. Since nearly everyone has chargers that can run cycles and provide numbers to match with, it would be too easy to simply run without numbers on the cells or without any numbers printed on the cells.

But alas, I wholey agree that our race times should be lengthened. Anyone care to comment on this topic? Keep it clean kiddies!
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:41 PM   #17
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To me, the cost of cells is one of the few things that has seemed to go down. I mean with so many quality matching companies out there, you can find quality cells for a low cost.

Heck, remember when it was pretty much Reedy or Trinity if you wanted high quality matched cells? And the prices for the top packs were in the $85-$90 range?

Today, you can buy Kinetix's or SMC's best packs for around $65. Compared to the prices of yesteryear...thats more than reasonable!
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:41 PM   #18
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my 3rd rc car was the rc10. when i went to race this car at a local level, the 'competitive' people at the time had almost no stock parts on their car beyond the shocks. this includes bellcranks, tie rods, chassis, transmission, shock towers, dog bones, etc. batteries were 'one run per day/week' reccomendations until the advent of the 1400's.

IMO, the only components that are more expensive now (comparitively) are the motors and tires. the technology in these areas has produced faster/better, but at the cost of longevity. i also find that at most tracks i visit, the level is alot higher than it was back in 'the day'. this in and of itself is going to raise the costs exponentially if you expect to compete and win consistently.

hopefully with the gaining popularity of brushless, we will be able to remove motors as a such a cost deterent in competitive racing.

as far as tires go, i don't see that changing much. organizations refuse to impose limits in this area, and most clubs would refuse to enforce the rules anyway.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
The 4-cell thread and the dumbing downt he hobby thread weren't enough? I can see this thread leading to another argument
I understand what your saying, but we can't just leave it at that. We can't NOT raise questions in threads just because we're afraid it may start an argument. If we all did that, what would be the point of having a message board.

Heck, you could say 'the sky is blue' and someone would make an argument of it with you!

All we can do is start the threads, voice our opinions, and hope things stay civil.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:49 PM   #20
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Default Longer races

I think that if people could change there "super fast" mentality that longer races would work! A few less classes with longer times might be good. It would bring more strategy into the game too, gearing would be super important, more of an emphasis on efficiency and driving cleanly. Slightly slower cars too. I dunno, sounds good to me!
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:50 PM   #21
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Any discussion that revolves around the limiting or even worse the rollback of technology is a powder keg waiting to go off.

Should a class be made that limits number of cells, types of cells? allowable motors, etc....

Possibly....Trinity triedit years ago with the Street Spec otors and packs..and they're taking another run at it with the T-Spec...changes or limitation imposed shouldn't be broadly aplied across the entire hobby though.

I hope that the battery technology continues to develop and evolve....I want to be running a Brushless system with an ESC the size of my QC2 powered by Hig volt, high mAh Lithium batteries safely capable of high charge/discharge rates...

Is it here yet? almost....

When will it happen? When the powers that be within thishobby allow it to
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:50 PM   #22
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Default I'm not arguing with the economics of buying them just that.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkseid
To me, the cost of cells is one of the few things that has seemed to go down. I mean with so many quality matching companies out there, you can find quality cells for a low cost.

Heck, remember when it was pretty much Reedy or Trinity if you wanted high quality matched cells? And the prices for the top packs were in the $85-$90 range?

Today, you can buy Kinetix's or SMC's best packs for around $65. Compared to the prices of yesteryear...thats more than reasonable!
I think the increasing cost stems not from cost of the batteries per-se but from trying to "use" the extra capacity they provide.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: The only reason for the increasing costs involved in keeping up this hobby......

Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Sharpe
Unfortunitely, there is not way to police the matching of battery packs. Since nearly everyone has chargers that can run cycles and provide numbers to match with, it would be too easy to simply run without numbers on the cells or without any numbers printed on the cells.

But alas, I wholey agree that our race times should be lengthened. Anyone care to comment on this topic? Keep it clean kiddies!
Yes Stock rubber should definetly 6 or 7 minutes. I hate dumping 2-3 min of run time on my charger. Its way more fun to be out on the track.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:55 PM   #24
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In most any rc racing its not all about the equipment as long as you have fairly decent stuff its about the guy holding the conroller. In most cases its 90% driver 10% car. Unless your setup is way out in left field most guys cars are similar for your class. The fast guys are fast because their lines are clean and they stay off the pipes. I saw a guy break a track record with a lathe slave motor and the pack used to run it. Most people are to proud to say that they just didnt drive good that race or whatever they'd rather wrench their but off or spend more money on motors or batterys.As for cost of batterys most anyone can buy second hand packs from "the fast guys" cheap.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Longer races

Quote:
Originally posted by elcid4300
I think that if people could change there "super fast" mentality that longer races would work! A few less classes with longer times might be good. It would bring more strategy into the game too, gearing would be super important, more of an emphasis on efficiency and driving cleanly. Slightly slower cars too. I dunno, sounds good to me!
Longer races sound good, but theissue of cooling comes into play...the added stress on the electronics is going to produce extra heat that could potentially shorten the life of the gear, even with different gearing
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:02 PM   #26
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Default Winsorguy

I am sure that the elctronics can handle the extra time. As for the motors, I know I can run my TC hard for plenty of time and the motor does get hot, but not as hot as gearing it to the moon and hammering it for 5 minutes
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:04 PM   #27
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Default I understand what you mean about being to proud.....

Quote:
Originally posted by schmelme
In most any rc racing its not all about the equipment as long as you have fairly decent stuff its about the guy holding the conroller. In most cases its 90% driver 10% car. Unless your setup is way out in left field most guys cars are similar for your class. The fast guys are fast because their lines are clean and they stay off the pipes. I saw a guy break a track record with a lathe slave motor and the pack used to run it. Most people are to proud to say that they just didnt drive good that race or whatever they'd rather wrench their but off or spend more money on motors or batterys.As for cost of batterys most anyone can buy second hand packs from "the fast guys" cheap.
There's an old saying that goes "A poor workman always blames his tools."

To that end I admit I like to have the best stuff I can afford at the start (so I can't blame them if that makes sense).

By that I mean if I get a new car it gets new gear to go in it if there has been a major change in tech since the last one. And since it's been years since I raced I can get some really good stuff now lol (hell if there was room in my CGM chassis I'd probably still be using my old T1X Novak lol).

But I never considered the batteries a "tool" and I think too many people are seeing that part of the hobby as the easiest thing to blame.

Last edited by Mabuchi540; 01-16-2005 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:10 PM   #28
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Default Oops,

quoted instead of edited previous post, so had to erase it instead lol.

Last edited by Mabuchi540; 01-16-2005 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:11 PM   #29
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You can limit the batteries in a class to a certain mAh, however, what you are going to run into is people charging these packsat MAX Amps - to get the punch that they are missing with some of the better packs on the market - and again shortening the packs life.

No doubt, the hobby is not cheap to get into if you are looking to be competitive, however, if you look at any other hobby its the same ... $40 fishing lures that you lose in the weeds, $200 running shoes, $2000 paintball guns, etc, etc.

If you want to bring the costs down, run a spec class where the cars can only have limited mods, and the packs have to be sealed from the manufacturer ... oh, wait, that's called Tamiya TCS.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:31 PM   #30
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I wholeheartedly welcome the idea of having longer races. For someone who maybe gets to race about 2-4 times a month like myself, it'll sure help ME figure out things like set-up, changes to set-up and how they affect the car, drivelines, cornering, etc. Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I should turn a couple of those race days to practice days . I feel that's what drive a lot of new guys out of the hobby... they feel like they have to 'RACE' right away. At least that was my experience. Except the guys that are consistently at the top of their class, I think all of us need equal time practicing and racing-- in that order. I really do enjoy my race days, but a little gripe that I have is that it's not all that fun moving out of the way of the faster guys all the time-- I'm trying to find my cars line too . But in the spirit of having fun and not pissing anyone off, I do what I have to...

Just a bit of insight into my psyche
I didn't mention anyting about batteries did I,... oh well

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