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Old 01-20-2005, 01:40 PM   #301
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I don't think the lay out of Xray's prototype is ideal.
I've been watching K-Models (Kai) for A while, and they came with a new chassis called "shadow".
It's already out for some time, but I really like it's lay out.
I think this layout is better balanced, the motor(left rear) with 3 battery cells (right rear) and the servo, esc and reciever (left front) with the other 3 battery cells (right front).

Take A look at this link, and tell me what you think about it:
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~kmodels/shadow.htm
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Old 01-20-2005, 03:25 PM   #302
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Well, first of all it still looks like six cells on the right and motor and electronics on the left. But, looks interesting as the top deck mounted wider of the chassis should make the car pretty stiff.

As to balance, who can say from a picture? While I cannot comment on the XRay proto I will say this: have some faith in Juraj ok? The man is a genius and is well capable of coming up with a "balanced" design
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:02 PM   #303
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how could anyone doubt xray! this is going to be one of those designs that the nay sayers will be standing on the sideline and saying "how can that ugly layout be so effective, AND SO QUICK!"
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:34 PM   #304
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Default I hope they make it as adjustable as...

a Pro4 or TC4. I'll buy one then and I won't go back to anyhting else!
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:16 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tekin
I don't think the lay out of Xray's prototype is ideal.
I've been watching K-Models (Kai) for A while, and they came with a new chassis called "shadow".
It's already out for some time, but I really like it's lay out.
I think this layout is better balanced, the motor(left rear) with 3 battery cells (right rear) and the servo, esc and reciever (left front) with the other 3 battery cells (right front).

Take A look at this link, and tell me what you think about it:
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~kmodels/shadow.htm
Looks like a souped-up 415 (look at all the Tamiya parts ... shocks, suspension). Still has the batteries on the right with motor & electronics on the left.

Re: the Shadow ... nice looking chassis - great machining, but I would be suprised if I ever see one of these at my track (the land of many Tamiya's).

As for the new FK05 - I'll have to wait and see one - I really like X-Ray's and have faith in their quality ... I am sure that the car will be quick. After looking more closely at the pics of the prototype - and if they stay with the suspension parts, most of us should be happy since they look like carry-over's from the current T1FK car - keeping support for the current crop of cars.
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:18 PM   #306
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The car looks like a mix of the top three touring cars all in one.
The top deck really looks familiar to the T1 Mini
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:11 PM   #307
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Default That's the car I've been talking about...

for years. I would rather seen Pro 4 arms and aluminum blocks.
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Old 01-21-2005, 02:59 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonyv
Well, first of all it still looks like six cells on the right and motor and electronics on the left. But, looks interesting as the top deck mounted wider of the chassis should make the car pretty stiff.

As to balance, who can say from a picture? While I cannot comment on the XRay proto I will say this: have some faith in Juraj ok? The man is a genius and is well capable of coming up with a "balanced" design
I don't have faith in Juraj, but in the whole team!
Xray's a pretty new company, and they're already at the top.
Everything they make is state of the art designed and machined.
I have no doubt the new chassis will be even better than before.
I'm looking forward to the new chassis, as I said before I run Xray and I'm going to stick wih it,
because I think it's one of the best company's these days.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:36 AM   #309
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The car still uses a saddlepack
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:06 AM   #310
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Regarding this "balance" issue let me tell a story (a true one BTW)

I have a T1 FK and like so many drivers I always felt that the right /left weight should be spot on.

Then I bought 4 precision scales for setting up my car and altough I did setup the car flawlessly I could never balance left and right precisely or within a close number.

The servo side is ligther on my car and on all Xray T1 I tested. We all were using small ESC, digital servos (Ko Futaba) and small Rx (Ko, Sanwa etc etc)

The weight is off around 20-30 grams. I even have the Personal Transp. over the servo and the weigth I put was on the right side of the car. It never got to the same value.

A friend of mine was having trouble with his XXX-S G+ on left turns. Immediatly the pundits attributed this to the excessive weight on the battery side. So much that even the owner was convinced. And his setup never got rid of that. For him it was a design flaw.

Till the day I put his car on the scales. It was balanced right/Left with a 0 (ZERO) difference. Absolutely perfect. We balanced diagonals and off he went to the track.

The car seemed to be glued to the track. The added confidence of having a perfect balance car did the rest.

What I want to say is:

The car MAY be perfectly balanced
If you haven't tried it on scales I bet that someone at Xray did that already.
If it's off and is severely underweight they might correct that don't you think so?

This speculation around masses, CG, weight distribution etc just by looking at pictures is totaly premature, and without any credible base.

I love the design, I love the way Juraj is able to release 4 cars (that i have and are in my collection) with so many differences and so many compatible parts.
That kind of puts the designers in the category os mechanical geniuses in my book
I WANT mine, and I'm sure I'll kick some balanced butt with it.

Oh and of course, the prize for craftsmanship - guess who'll win it AGAIN
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:52 AM   #311
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Regarding the the right/left balance:
You have to differ two things: Chassis-balance and tire load.
When you think about it you will see that it pretty obvios that these two things can differ completely. This is because you can set the tire load to a totally different number with the spring preload.
To measure the chassis-balance, you should remove the shocks and mount turnbuckles set to equal length. Put the car on the scales and balance the chassis.
After this process, put the shocks back on and tweak the tire load.
Now your car is perfectly balanced, you should recognise this in the track too.

hope this helps
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:07 AM   #312
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Of course, you're right. One thing is to balance a car with no shocks, and that will give you the left rigth balance.
With the shocks you can have a "corrected" left right balance.

But you car will always run with the shocks on, so that should ne your primary goal...

If you need to preload one spring a lot in one car, maybe there's a weight problem there.
We do this whithin acceptable margins. There are too many moving parts and too many variables for total precision to happen.

What I meant was :

No one can make any conclusions like the ones we see on the forum just by looking at photos. It can be really deceiving.


Lowering the center shaft will have an effect on CG. But how much? who can tell that besides the designer with the aid of sophisticated software?
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:22 AM   #313
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Strange...
Everybody is hooking up it on where the batteries are, and missing the important thing.
Batteries are just weight distribution, and this can be adjusted easely with electronics, weights a.s.o
Much more important is the location of the motor, as this is the moving mass under acceleration as well as under braking, where you go in and out of the corners. This car is far from finished, and thatīs why itīs called "a prototype". Before you hang anyone, or "demand" anything, plese let the team develope the car for a while, so the factory can produce the production product. Thatīs a process, and if you want the result to be good, please have some patient.
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:25 AM   #314
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Default Re: I hope they make it as adjustable as...

Quote:
Originally posted by RCknight
a Pro4 or TC4. I'll buy one then and I won't go back to anyhting else!
What are you talking about?? I hope it's the Shadow and not the x-ray.... X-ray cars have as many if not more adjustmants than the pro-4 or TC4, the inly difference is that with X-ray you don't need to spend any extra money outside of shock oil or springs and maybe RC mounts.... just pick up a screw driver and start wrenching...... I know it's hard for anyone who owns anything else to imagine, but it's true.... now you can spend that extra dough on spares......
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:42 AM   #315
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Totally agree.

Sometimes we have to recognize that other than driving an rc car (sometimes poorly) we don't know much about the dynamics involved in them.

Last edited by antoniop; 01-21-2005 at 07:48 AM.
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