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Old 01-13-2005, 07:06 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by GordonFreeman
My heros at my club are the one who kick ass every week with crap equipment. old crap TC3, old crap tires with cord showing, old crap trasmitter with dials on it. Old crap peice of plywood for a set-up board. He goes out, TQs and wins, just about every time. He proving that you can do it on a shoestring. If you know what your doing.
Here, here!
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:14 AM   #122
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Originally posted by ritchie
well actually they do restrict the size and speed of the players by banning steriods. is cause they are worried about the players health, no, its because they don't want anyone to have a unfair advantage, you know, like hand wound motors and batterys no one else has access to, or custom built speed controls. you get the idea.

oh boy, i'm gonna get ripped pretty good for that one i expect.
This topic has come up before...and the sponsored racers basically work as an R&D and marketing department for the manufacturerers.

Manufacturers sponsor people in order to showcase their product, so they want their best product(generally) going to their team guys so that when people are amazed by how well it did they ask what it was and hopefully generate a sale.

The motors and ESC's though, require real world race-testing prior to release in order to get the bugs out of the system....Don't believe for one second that the manufacturer is going to hold back product that works flawlessly, or only release items like an ESC to their team.....there just simply isn't any volume or profit there for them. IF they release that same unit to the public it generates an income stream for the mfg...it's all about making money.

The great news though is that the level of electronics that we have available to us now is so high that it's stuff that there isn't as much difference between Factory team gear and the 'Average Joe" as there has been in years past.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:17 AM   #123
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Dumbing down?

I dont see it as that. Talk to any pro racer or anyone big in the hobby, and they will all agree that it is sad how little exposure our hobby gets. I remember my friend when he finally ran his first race. He came home al excited. He finished in last place but told ALL his friends how much fun he had. He is the reason I bought my first touring car. I think what the industry is doing is trying to make it easier to get into racing, and expose that exitement to more and more people. People wil learn pretty quickly that any hobby or sport, requires time and effort to be the best, but its still nice geting more out to the track.

An example, I have an old T Maxx and love to go camping. I ALWAYS take my truck with me. Ill go into a public area like the beach area or something and run the truck. Invariably, I am always approached by people, mostly younger ones, who wanna see "that cool RC truck". When they ask me about it, I usually let them drive it a bit and they end up having a blast. Several people I have allowed to do this have bought ones for themselves.

My long winded point is, I think the move is not for dumbing down RC, I think it an attempt to expose a wonderful hobby to as many as possible.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:28 AM   #124
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Why are we Dumbing down our hobby??

I guess I just don't understand why we're moving towards making everything in this hobby easier. One of the main reasons I still do this after 17+ years is because it's challenging. The 4-cell Sedan movement, and the advent of the brushless motor, will remove a fair amount of the challenge, as I see it. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I do this for the challenge of running with the big dogs at THEIR level. I have no interest in becoming competitive by bring them down to my level.

Feel free to post whatever you like, but I didn't establish this thread to start a festival of flaming, so please try to be constructive.


I thought I'd bring the main topic back to the fore for those who dont want to start at page 1!!!

Well-dumbing down is inevitable isnt it? I remember BIlly Easton saying in an interview that cars have gotten so good now that its easy to be fast. And I talk to local guys like Brian RIce who raced offroad before sticky cmpounds and inserts!!! Grab just a little too much throttle and spin out everytime!!

I also recall when the TC3 came out that c-main guys instantly became a-main guys till all the A-main guys bought them too. There really is no stopping the dumbing down of the sport.

New guys WILL become faster at a faster rate then they did in the days of the Pan Car and 12th scale I think. Cars have become that good right out of the box.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:29 AM   #125
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I seriously don't think we are dumbing this hobby down... I'm one of those with all the toy's, but it's taken me years to accumulate them.... I'd gladly give up my lathe and dyno to run brushless.... It's one more thing out of my hair to allow me to work on the chassis and my driving....

The problem with TC's is there is so much riding on your setup, more so than off road.... You can take a half ass ST or buggy and TQ with it... You can't do that with a TC....

Not everyone is going to be in the A Main for one reason or another.... I was looking through my old trophies from the late 80's early 90's and can't fathom how I won these days.... I guess age and the lack of feeling in both my hands from a car accident doesn't help.... But I'm ecstatic to make the B main.... I realize the day's of me taking TQ are over and I'm just having a blast racing.... Having fun racing is what it's all about....

Be happy you wake up every day to go race... Be happy you are able to go, there are people out there who can't.... I will never race my cars or motorcycles again... If I get hit the wrong way I'm going to either be dead or a parapelegic...
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:32 AM   #126
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A few of the posts say" do you know where the hobby came from?"....but I am suprised nobody has stepped up and answered..... HMM how many really know where the hobby came from??????

Answer----- people started getting bored with control line racing, so people started either modifiing their control line cars or hand building their own racecars to compete....

All cars where glow fuel powered, no clutches, direct drive, no suspension, no brakes..... and all hell on wheels, the race didn't end until everyone ran out of fuel..... You didn't "brake late" for a turn, you lowered your throttle and used the engines compression braking...... nowadays guys whine if they brake a part and it's not setting there on the shelf...(myself included...lol) Back then if you broke a part you damn sure better remember how you made the SOB..... and hopefully now you can figure how to make it stronger....
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:34 AM   #127
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Heres another example-Watch a guy at your local track whos decent-not great. he buys a car used that possibly has a great set-up on it from the previous owner. If not a great set-up-then at least has been mainatained to a very high level. All of a sudden the guy looks like a million bucks. A few weeks pass and he gets slower and slower...... why? He didnt maintain the car to the previous owners level.

So to make my own counterpoint-even if RTR's and brushless make it easier to run-if you lack the commitment or the ability to process information and absorb advice and use it-no dumbing down of the sport will help you.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:59 AM   #128
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Yes. It not dumbing down. Thats like saying that Windows was the dumbing down of computers, becasue back in the days of DOS we had to type everything and there was no mouse. Its not dumbing down, its improvement of technology. The improved technology will allow inexperienced racers to go faster than they did 10 years ago, wit less work. But pro's like Hara and guys like that, using the same technology, applying their skill at driving and tweaking, will be just as dominant. The speed gap is still there, but EVERYONE will just be faster.
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:10 AM   #129
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The hardest part with todays cars is tht EVERYTHING is adjustable, which makes it harder for newbies to be able to learn what needs to be done.

In the past there were limited tuning options....youonly had to learn a little....options were aded and you could add them to your resume...now everything must be learned all at once.

I'm not saying that this is wrong, it just requires a greater amount of focus and understanding than is reasonable to expect for a newbie.

Eliminating classes to go with either 4-cell or BL does seem like the wrong direction....abandoning rules that are based on old technology to allow continuous development is something else that should be considered (3 stack armatures as an example)...

The great part about this hobby is the spirit of co-operation..people helping each other out in an attempt to make everyone faster and have better competition. ...

This thread is full of a disturbing number of replies that sound to me like people stating "I'm fast, you're not, so STAY OUTTA MY WAY"

Ultimately that risks driving people away from the hobby

When a newbie grabs a XXXS or TC# RTR out of the box...where does he start?

He sees everyone else at the track racing...

He needs to understand that he's not goig to win right away...but with time, and practice, and a lot of learning, then it's a possibility.

RTR's have become raceable, whereas they may not hang withthe top level, they can be made competitive all the way up to that point...

Unfortunately a lot of the advice that is given to the newbies flies straight over their heads....

We havea young guy at our track that after a couple of weeks with a XXXS RTR as his first ever RC car has planted hmself firmly in the middle of the pack because he has a knack for naturally holding a smooth clean line....I think the kid is 12or 13...

After the race where he fared really well..one of the other racers asks to look at the car and tells him to adjust camber, toe, caster, change his roll center, stiffen up his springs, go to a heavier shock oil and look into ading a sway bar....How is the kid supposed to grasp that?

Learning a little at a time..how to make changes and how those changes effect the handling one at a time seems about the only way....

It's almost worthwhile pretending that the kits of today have limited adjustability.....mentally remove the capacity for some of the adjustments until they are comfortable with the primitive set...
thenmove on to advanced tuning...

Drivers are getting overwhelmed with information and are over-tuning their cars quite often moving away from good setups, and not knowing why, because they were making multiple adjustments
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:13 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zala
Yes. It not dumbing down. Thats like saying that Windows was the dumbing down of computers, becasue back in the days of DOS we had to type everything and there was no mouse. Its not dumbing down, its improvement of technology. The improved technology will allow inexperienced racers to go faster than they did 10 years ago, wit less work. But pro's like Hara and guys like that, using the same technology, applying their skill at driving and tweaking, will be just as dominant. The speed gap is still there, but EVERYONE will just be faster.
Yet another bad example....I gave my bad example earlier lol...

Windows did dumb down computers to a large extent...but by doing so made it available to the masses because the GUI was inherently easier to use...

I still do miss DOS though as I feel that Windows based programs ahve gotten unnecessarily sloppy as more focus has been put on the presentation than the contentandorganizationin many instances.
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:20 AM   #131
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Quote:
This thread is full of a disturbing number of replies that sound to me like people stating "I'm fast, you're not, so STAY OUTTA MY WAY"


Quote:
bandoning rules that are based on old technology to allow continuous development is something else that should be considered (3 stack armatures as an example)...


Quote:
Drivers are getting overwhelmed with information and are over-tuning their cars quite often moving away from good setups, and not knowing why, because they were making multiple adjustments
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:32 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by 403forbidden
Damn, I've never seen so many lame whiners in my life.

You act as if you have a God-given right to this hobby.

Guess what you schmuck? You don't.

This hobby isn't providing you with enough "old school" racers? Oh poor baby!

Long live RTR, Brushless, etc!!
You must be smart! And you dad is proud to call you son using a word like that.
You Guys forget there are less people racing now not because it harder its because of cry babies. How come when it was hard to build your own cars (imagine no RtR's) back in the 80's and early 90's there was alot more people racing and it cost more back then! Because people had some initiative. ( not lazy)
Why has newbies declined in recent years?
Why because all the races arent held out in the open where the public could see them like in the past. now they are hidden in private race tracks where a smaller amount of people see them.
Pluss add to that a Hobby stores rather sell a kid an 80 mph missle that runs once and wont start again so he takes it back to the store with his pissed of parents because they want to charge them for looking at the dang thing which is way over there head. My friend this is where you should be directing you SHMUCK Comment to! I also have a suggestion who else you can call a shmuck but its not her fault!
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:37 AM   #133
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I've only been racing for a little over a year now. This is my second carpet season. Last year I can a used HPI Pro 2 and it was not in good maintenance condition etc. Then ran a XXX-T and I learned to drive some more. Now I'm driving a XXX-S graphite, JR XS3 syn radio, Novak Touring TC2 speedo, foam tires and Monster stocks with some Hurricane packs and Quasar pro and runing very competive at my local track and won Sportman Rubber at the 2005 Novak race.

What helped me, practice and knowledge, learning how to drive, learning about set up and asking others. I've learned and tried diff motor combos and still learning. Yes you can spend a wad of money to get started but it's leveling off and know the knowledge part is kicking in and I'm improving every week. And having more fun.

I guess from what I see and have learned so far practice, practice, practice and experimenting. Practice a bunch make a small change, practice, make a small change and practice.
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:58 AM   #134
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Alot of the guys that you think are unapproachable will help you. Problem you have to approach them at the right time not when they are about to go run.
I help the newbies all the time and try to explain to them why and how come of what they are doing I also give away my used tires to the kids. Just because I agree with cypress doesnt mean I dont help to make the sport grow you all take one comment and turn the person into either good or bad. Just because it has become to easy incertain aspect it still isnt the answer.
My track is hidden I tell people about it at he hobby store or on the street if I see someone playing with one. Alot of times they tell me I didnt know they raced these!
The Hobby store didnt tell them. People you are all looking at it wrong. We are pointing fingers at the wrong guys.
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Old 01-13-2005, 10:00 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyper1
I hope that wasn't meant for me!

Of course not, you have a special splace in my heart.
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