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Old 01-12-2005, 03:46 PM   #46
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Originally posted by stumper
So if that same kid bought a kit he would probably go straight to podium . I get it now.
The argument is not about the equipment, it's about the formula. If the kid buys a kit he's not going to win right away either. My point is that there's NO WAY IN HELL he's gonna win unless he develops the skills necessary to compete.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:51 PM   #47
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True....and that is also true whether he runs 2 cells or 20.....brushed motor or brushless...

it still involves developing a skillset...

who defines what skills are required.

Does a NASCAR driver ned to be a master mechanic?

Does a football quarterback need to know how to properly execute a Defensive Lineman's Swim move to bust throught he O-Line?

No....it benefits both of those examples greatly to have some understanding of those items, how they work and how they will effect the job they are attempting to do....

Why not in RC? To be competitive, why does someone have to be a master motor tuner? Is having a steady hand to hold a smooth line and the suspension knowledge to properly set up the chassis not enough?
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:52 PM   #48
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Originally posted by Windsorguy99
Your argumrnt is that it closes the gap between the havs and the have-nots....

how is tighter competition less fun?

If it is less fun because of less speed(4-cell), then wouldn't the ability to make the cars faster, easier make Brushless more fun for everybody?
T-Spec cars make for tight racing, but they are oddly NO FUN to drive because they are slow.

I don't like brushless because I enjoy motor tuning, part of this hobby is developing a competitive edge, and there are several different ways to do this. One of the ones I enjoy is motor tuning. Brushless is coming, and that's an inevitability. But I see no reason to slow everything down until it gets here.

If everyone wants a slower class that's fine, create a slower class. Just don't punish those who like to race 6-cell by converting the entire genre over.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
The argument is not about the equipment, it's about the formula. If the kid buys a kit he's not going to win right away either. My point is that there's NO WAY IN HELL he's gonna win unless he develops the skills necessary to compete.
so 4 cell "Racing" and brushless takes away from the formula how?
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:54 PM   #50
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I think the main point of a 4cell mod class is being missed. Battery technology is surpassing the motor technology. And they feel that the current and up and comming batches of cells are more than the current motors can handle. I believe Mr Reedy and MR Martinez have a good understanding of what a mod motor can handle.

I dont feel like this "DUMBS DOWN" anything. I think that is directly opposite of the effect it would have. Does putting a restrictor plate on an internal combustion engine make is slower? Yes. Easier to tune and build? Hell no, it makes it twice as hard and makes all of the details twice as important. I dont like the idea of 4 cell either but I think for differen reasons. I dont like it from the chassis side of things. How do you design a car that is suited for both? An X Ray or any other with saddle packs would be easier as it would just lighten up the car but what about a TC4 or a Shuie where the cells are all on one side that would be hard to make suited for both. And just adding weight to the 4 cell car is a bad idea also as it would just make them slower and be harder on the motors. I doubt if there is an easy answer. But change is good that I know is a fact.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:56 PM   #51
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Running T-Spec on a track designed for Open mod was a HORRENDOUS mistake...

on a smaller tighter track then it might actually be interesting.

How exciting would running Go-carts at Daytona be?

Put them on a track designed for them though and then they can be quite fun!
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest

I don't like brushless because I enjoy motor tuning, part of this hobby is developing a competitive edge, and there are several different ways to do this. One of the ones I enjoy is motor tuning. Brushless is coming, and that's an inevitability. But I see no reason to slow everything down until it gets here.

The best way to develop a competive "edge" in my book and always will be is learning how to drive the car.......... What fun is it if you have the fastest line on the track but some new guy knows how to tune a motor but cant drive gets faster lap times? Thats pretty weak if you ask me.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:58 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
True....and that is also true whether he runs 2 cells or 20.....brushed motor or brushless...

it still involves developing a skillset...

who defines what skills are required.

Does a NASCAR driver ned to be a master mechanic?

Does a football quarterback need to know how to properly execute a Defensive Lineman's Swim move to bust throught he O-Line?

No....it benefits both of those examples greatly to have some understanding of those items, how they work and how they will effect the job they are attempting to do....

Why not in RC? To be competitive, why does someone have to be a master motor tuner? Is having a steady hand to hold a smooth line and the suspension knowledge to properly set up the chassis not enough?
Those are team sports, and each member of the team has to know how to execute his function to its' fullest.

A qb has to understand the mechanics of the entire defense, and work around the constraints that they can throw at him. He then has to trust that his receivers will run the appropriate routes and get their jobs done. So a QB is probably not the best example of the scenario you're looking for. He doesn't just walk out on the field and throw the ball.

A nascar driver must have all of the tools around him in order to succeed. If you wanna liken thsi to Nascar, go out and get a race engineer, a mechanic, and a motor shop. That's why Nascar is the most expensive "cost controlled' racing series in the world.

You can't really draw that type of parallel here.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by stumper
The best way to develop a competive "edge" in my book and always will be is learning how to drive the car.......... What fun is it if you have the fastest line on the track but some new guy knows how to tune a motor but cant drive gets faster lap times? Thats pretty weak if you ask me.
Sounds like oval.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by stumper
The best way to develop a competive "edge" in my book and always will be is learning how to drive the car.......... What fun is it if you have the fastest line on the track but some new guy knows how to tune a motor but cant drive gets faster lap times? Thats pretty weak if you ask me.
Practice is key, and there will occasionally be guys eho run faster than a better driver because they have more motor, but that lesser driver will more than likely make a mistake with that pull and the better driver can go around.

But pull is a part of the package.


I unfortunately have to leave now, but I look forward to seeing where this thread goes tomorrow.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:21 PM   #56
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I can't for the life of me see how this sport is being "dumbed down". The average racer wanting to win in modified at club level now has to have more knowledge and more equipment than at any time previously in the sport of R/C.

The knowledge required for suspension tuning for example is enourmously advanced on what it was 10 or 5 or even 2 years ago (not to mentioned equipment like setup boards and laser tweak stations).

The knowledge and finesse required to setup the latest generation of ditial/computer radios, or speed controls is far in advance of that required 10 years ago.

The introduction of 4 cell TC, or brushless motors isn't "dumbing down" the sport. It's just moving the emphasis to different areas.

If anything I would suspect that its ever more difficult for an "average" driver to put together the knowledge, equipment and skills necessary to compete at "pro" level - without substantial assistance.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
I am soooo with you on this one. I came up in the era of the Gold tub Rc10 with the 6-gear tranny. Talk about work getting your car right. The mold for the rear arms was screwed up for about 6 years where the inner hinge pin holes didnt line up with each other. I just read a guy complaining about building his Losi ADII truck and having to trim the molding off the plastic pieces. Maye we are the minority here and actually enjoy the time it takes to amke your car "perfect".
don't you just hate progress and advancement!!

me? i'm all for brushless and easy to build kits, it's what gets the more people enjoying it (easy kits) and it's what got me into electric (brushless)
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:36 PM   #58
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ya it's gotin way easier 2 run a sedan, i'm gwttin out of tourin 2 get into 1/12 scale just so there is some form of challenge, but the 4 cell sedan is a good inexpensive way 2 help the new ppl comin 2 the hobby. I think the reason behind it gettin easier is because there are so many ne ppl lookin at this hobby
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:38 PM   #59
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People screamed when 12th scale went 4-cell too.....it's a shame too. The cars are just so blinkin SLOW now....
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:39 PM   #60
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To instate 4 cell TC- IMHO would hurt racing as a whole. The fast will still be faster than you... and you will then find another thing to whine about.

If you want the cars slower... let start with better guidelines in the body department.

STOP introducing cells with more MAH.

If you want the cars slower... run longer heats. IMHO this is the best thing to do. More race time... equals more bang for the buck.

if you want the cars slower... instate a 12 turn limmit.

4 cell is rediculous.
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