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Old 01-12-2005, 02:59 PM   #31
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Default Re: Re: Re: Why are we Dumbing down our hobby??

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Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Do you know how F-1 drivers get that set-up? They get it by testing! F-1 drivers (with the exception of KIMI Raikonnen), spend YEARS honing their skills in lesser forms of motorsport before they reach the pinnacle. The same is true of our sport. You don't just dive into 1/8th scale gas or 12th scale Mod. Leave the Challenge for those who are capable and willing to take it on.
Precisely! And the kid that you sold the RTR to (and warned that they wouldn't win unless they had a full-tilt race car) is the same as all the young talent working their way up through the ranks just to get a seat in a Formula 3000 car so that MAYBE they can be a test driver in Formula One.
The RTR newbies aren't all going to become dedicated racers. But if they get discouraged right from the start, we'll never know. I say do it all - I don't care what class or type of car. The more people we get into it, the better a chance we have at hooking a few of them.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:00 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Windsorguy99
CMW...I find your comments a little shocking and disturbing....an elitist attitude that some peple aren't cut out for racing could be counterproductive.

If someone can come out to the track throw their stuff on and run and have FUN then more power to them. Making it easier for people to be competitive is going to make it more fun, easier for more people, which could very well help grow the hobby.

You know that not every one is going to develop into an A-Main driver, but that doesn't mean that you want them to give up on racing.

This is a hobby, it's supposed to be about FUN
In no way am I trying to be elitist, and I apologize if I sound that way. Anyone who knows me is well aware of the fact that I will go out of my way to help ANYONE at the track or in my store. I have built motors, handed out set-up advice, and repaired cars for guys/girls. I want the challenge that FULL ON OPEN MOD delivers, and so do A TON of other people, so should that be taken away from us?

A simple solution to the problem is an entry level class.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:02 PM   #33
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I guess actually driving the car has nothing to do with being succesfull on the track either huh?? I guess if I build a kit , rebuild my motors, solder my packs I should automatically be able to run with the big boys then huh?? Lamest thing I've read all day........... Are you just mad because some kid is beating you with his RTR ??? Get over it.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
I want the challenge that FULL ON OPEN MOD delivers, and so do A TON of other people, so should that be taken away from us?

A simple solution to the problem is an entry level class.
And that's exactly what the proponents of 4-cell racing want, as well. Perhaps you misunderstood them, then. I don't think anyone (or very many) are proposing that all 6-cell racing be banished. Most supporters want a novice class with 4-cell racing. Even the classes that do have 4-cell racing (pan car, etc.) still have top Pro classes with drivers running 6-cells.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by stumper
I guess actually driving the car has nothing to do with being succesfull on the track either huh?? I guess if I build a kit , rebuild my motors, solder my packs I should automatically be able to run with the big boys then huh?? Lamest thing I've read all day........... Are you just mad because some kid is beating you with his RTR ??? Get over it.
If you read the first post you'll see that RTR is not really the issue, it's the constant need to bring R/C down to the newbie level that I'm complaining about.
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Last edited by CypressMidWest; 01-12-2005 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:12 PM   #36
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right............Im the one sounding stupid!
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:16 PM   #37
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Originally posted by SammyXp
And that's exactly what the proponents of 4-cell racing want, as well. Perhaps you misunderstood them, then. I don't think anyone (or very many) are proposing that all 6-cell racing be banished. Most supporters want a novice class with 4-cell racing. Even the classes that do have 4-cell racing (pan car, etc.) still have top Pro classes with drivers running 6-cells.
I've read the 4- cell thread and it appears fairly apparent that the overall direction is toward 4-cell TC, there are some that have suggested 4-cell mod to replace stock and then 6-cell mod for the "real deal" but that's not been received all that well either. The author of the thread was actually referring to mod, as that is what he himself runs, and it was suggested to limit equipment failures. So I think I have a decent grasp on the subject.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:20 PM   #38
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4 cell racing will put more emphasis on setup, a free drive train and a clean line....I don't see how this hurts the big dogs or brings them down...

Brushless maks it easier and less expensive to maintain the motors....and again, it's still the setup and lines that win the races...

I really don't see it as dumbing downthe hobby.

Are the V2 based motors also in this category because they require less maintenance thantypical brushed motors?

No..someone shouldn't jump right into MOD 12th scale or 1/8 onroad as their first race experience. But they have the right to do so if they choose. Due to the amount of new blood or people that think that crashes are funny, some tracks around here have adopted rules forcing the guilty party to pay for any required repairs....

Makingit easier for cars to handle well and be fast is only going to help increase the appeal of RC racing. The fast guys wil still be the fast guys. The slow guys will just be a little faster chasing them!!
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:21 PM   #39
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Feel free to post whatever you like, but I didn't establish this thread to start a festival of flaming, so please try to be constructive.
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If you read before you post you won't sound so stupid.
Only took 2 hours to turn this personal and break your own rules.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:22 PM   #40
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Well I didn't mean to seem as if I were attempting to speak for anyone else - but I certainly would never want to see the Pro classes reduced in any way. Far from it - I wouldn't mind seeing even more open rules for the Pros that allow different types of downforce (diffusers, wings, GTP style bodies, etc.) and even more advances in performance. (Just like I hate to hear people talk about 2.4 liter Formula One engines!).

But you can still work your way up to the Pro classes, and run 4-cell mod or 4-cell 19T. Furthermore, I could even see the possibility of more drivers making it to the Pro ranks since they could focus more on driving skills than all out speed. Some of the best race car drivers come from slower ranks such as SCCA solo autocross because they focused on car control far more than horsepower. I think this same principle could help our hobby.

Instead, right now newcomers to the hobby are inundated with comm lathes and titanium and carbon fiber and anodized aluminum goodies and neglect the most important ingredient for a win - driving skill.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by stumper
right............Im the one sounding stupid!
The reason I thought your comment was unwarranted is because it adds NOTHING to the discussion whatsoever.

I firmly believe that ready to run is FINE for the hobbyist, A ready to run XXX-S can be made competitive, and offers an excellent way to enter the hobby, but there's no way the kids gonna win in mod the first time out.

If you actually think about it, the move to 4-cell is even more detrimental to the bulk of the RTR market because the stick packs the RTR guys use are 6-cell packs.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:25 PM   #42
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Originally posted by GordonFreeman
Only took 2 hours to turn this personal and break your own rules.
Yep. I hate when I do that and I apologize. I just hate when an open discussion is ruined by petty comments that add no value to a discussion. Maybe I just got defensive of my little thread. I have edited the post to remove my own rules infraction.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:35 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
Are the V2 based motors also in this category because they require less maintenance thantypical brushed motors?

Makingit easier for cars to handle well and be fast is only going to help increase the appeal of RC racing. The fast guys wil still be the fast guys. The slow guys will just be a little faster chasing them!!
The V2 motors aren't included because they still offer real world tuning options rather than speedo tuning.

And yes the fast guys will still be fast, we just won't be having nearly as much fun as we are now IMHO.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:39 PM   #44
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Your argumrnt is that it closes the gap between the havs and the have-nots....

how is tighter competition less fun?

If it is less fun because of less speed(4-cell), then wouldn't the ability to make the cars faster, easier make Brushless more fun for everybody?
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:42 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
.

I firmly believe that ready to run is FINE for the hobbyist, A ready to run XXX-S can be made competitive, and offers an excellent way to enter the hobby, but there's no way the kids gonna win in mod the first time out.
So if that same kid bought a kit he would probably go straight to podium . I get it now.
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