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Old 01-14-2005, 08:31 AM   #196
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if the point of using 4 cell is too slow down, is 27T not slow enough? cmon guys! 4 cell mod and 4 cell stock? that's two more classes to add unless we drop 19T 6 cell and 27T 6 cell
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:46 AM   #197
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Racing is racing. Whatever it is you'll be there to compete or you wouldn't be spending all this time talking about it. I'd wager that most of you have raced more than one type of car in your time. TC, pan, 1/12, legend, smaller scale/mini-whatever, 2wd/4wd off-road..not to mention the dozen gas equivalents. Guess what, you probably had good times and some bad times but you enjoyed it enough to still be in it through all the changes from msc to esc's, 1100-3700's, 3-piece wheels to 1 piece and hard to soft tires with foam inserts.

If something is going to keep the initial cost down and still allow people to tweak, its a good thing.

If 4 cell scares you there are only 2 things that can be at issue here.. driving ability, or the lack of speed/direction changes in your track. (the tc worlds were a prime example. You could have put sand in your shocks it was so wide open - exaggeration? maybe. but why would else you be juicing some hot n heavy motor if you weren't spinning tires)

I didn't see any complaining about this new spektrum module for the radios. I've been waiting since day one for this old technology to be incorporated.

I'm sure there was a bunch of complaining about going to esc's and getting longer run time, about not being able to tweak those 3 piece rims for that extra edge, those darn plastic chassis equaling out the field, and the ability to use a computer to keep track of all the racing.
All these advancements have given the competitor options for tuning, while the RTR(ebuild) gets people in the door. Its the same in any style of competition where spectating isn't the sport. There is always an entry level class for the new people, and gradual classes for races with more experience. There are rules to help keep cost down (NASCAR/F1 both have big cost cutting engine rules being implemented.) Yet their popularity is rising along with ours and the fast guys are still fast. There are numerous websites, magazines, and now tv shows.

I'd say all in all, things are getting better.

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Old 01-14-2005, 08:53 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by Assasin
if the point of using 4 cell is too slow down, is 27T not slow enough? cmon guys! 4 cell mod and 4 cell stock? that's two more classes to add unless we drop 19T 6 cell and 27T 6 cell
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
patrick - it's not that we want to slow the cars down. We want the motor to last more than one run before needind new brushes and cutting the comm. 4 cell was an idea in which to do this. Slowing the cars down slightly is an unfortunate by-product of this.
Please read through the entire thread to understand the issues that are being discussed. I clarified this for another person on the previous page.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:46 AM   #199
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Originally posted by Josh Cyrul
I can't believe and I'm embarrased how people I know who have posted on this thread have lost touch with the most important part of r/c... Having fun and enjoying the hobby..... Yes, competition is cool and part of the fun but do all of you guys seriouly go to the track for the technical challenge and to bash the other guys into the ground out on the track (figurativly speaking).... I would hope not.... If RTR bring people into the hobby and that means more racers, more fun and more great racing then it's doing it's part. Everyone has to learn how to crawl before they can walk and everyone learns at their own pace in their own time......
Josh, You know I'm all for growth, I just don't believe that 4-cell sedan is going to offer any type of appreciable growth to the class. The biggest insurgence of drivers in TC that we see in our area is Off-Road Crossovers. The Off-Road guys aren't going to break down their packs to run TC, and then have to buy all new cells to run off-road, nor are they gonna buy a bunch of 4-cell packs. I think it actually reduces the potential pool of racers.

Brushless is less an issue for me because I feel it has the potential to bring new blood into the hobby. I may hate the thought of electronic rather than electro-mechanical tuning, but brushless has it's advantages, and I'm beginning to accept that.

I just don't see four-cell as being any less struggle for the new hobbyist from a technical standpoint. If, as some have proposed, it will place more emphasis on chassis tuning and proper driving, ( a point I don't agree with), then isn't that going to be a greater frustration to a novice?

I also look at EVERY form of motorsport known to man as a bit of a template here. Each racing series through the years has implemented some form of "money saving" regulations to attempt to curb costs, yet the same big budget teams end up at the top of the heap everytime. Racing is a competitive endeavor, and someone will always spend more than their counterparts to obtain an edge. This is NEVER going to change.
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Old 01-14-2005, 10:53 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by SammyXp
Cole, Zala, Thank You! That's exactly what I've been saying.
Exactly, this is what I've been saying all along! An entry level class that's supported NATIONWIDE, would be a fantastic thing. I would like to see a class that incorporates the current crop of cars so that an individual starting out can graduate up to the next level as their skills improve. A 4-cell class or maybe a Mabuchi class would be an excellent place to start racing, learn chassis tuning, and driving basics, then graduate out to the bigger classes as you progress.

I like this idea far better than moving the whole class to 4-cell.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:06 AM   #201
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If you're wondering what impact 4 cell racing will have, just look at oval it went 4 cell years ago.And yes it does put an emphasis on chassis and driving.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:35 AM   #202
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Originally posted by Hyper1
If you're wondering what impact 4 cell racing will have, just look at oval it went 4 cell years ago.And yes it does put an emphasis on chassis and driving.
Oval is an entirely different animal. Chassis tuning is more important in Oval than any other class regardless of the number of cells used.

My friends who still run Oval have told me that the cars are actually easier to drive on 4-cells though.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:55 AM   #203
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Having not been around 4 years a go when oval went 4 cell......what happened?
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Old 01-14-2005, 12:14 PM   #204
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Easier? depends on what class you run, stock maybe? even 4 cell stock has gotten pretty fast,19T & 21T is as fast or faster than six cell stock was back in the day,yea chassis has always been important but like I said 4 cells now put a real emphasis on the chassis and the driving one little bobble and you're out of the race cause you don't have the power to make up any ground.
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Old 01-14-2005, 12:15 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyper1
If you're wondering what impact 4 cell racing will have, just look at oval it went 4 cell years ago.And yes it does put an emphasis on chassis and driving.
If touring cars went 3/4 to full throttle racing at top end and not have hairpin curves and switch backs or any other turns that invovle lifting and getting back up to speed 10 to 15 times in one lapp then we wouldnt have an issue with punch or 4 cells.

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Old 01-14-2005, 12:45 PM   #206
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Just think if we had to trailbrake manually!!!

RC racing is harder than racing a full size car or kart. And I think knowledge needed to succed in RC is higher than big cars too.
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Old 01-14-2005, 12:55 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyper1
Easier? depends on what class you run, stock maybe? even 4 cell stock has gotten pretty fast,19T & 21T is as fast or faster than six cell stock was back in the day,yea chassis has always been important but like I said 4 cells now put a real emphasis on the chassis and the driving one little bobble and you're out of the race cause you don't have the power to make up any ground.
Agreed, but that was the case in 6-cell as well. If you made a mistake, it took a mistake by the guys in front of you to catch up, If you did it with motor, you dumped. I agree that in Oval chassis tuning is a bit more important w 4-cells because you need to carry EVERY bit of available speed, all the time. But Oval cannot be compared to TC directly. The dynamics of the tracks are entirely different, and the cars are SIGNIFICANTLY heavier, with a ton more drivetrain drag.

4-cell worked in Oval and 12th scale because the classes were originated when it took 6-cells to make a car move at anything that resembled an acceptable pace.

Oval cars are faster now than they were in the six-cell days because of advances in chassis, tire, motor and battery technology. The entire package evolved to the point where six-cells were no longer necessary, and were actually OVERKILL. I don't think TC's have reached that stage in their evolution.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:17 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Agreed, but that was the case in 6-cell as well. If you made a mistake, it took a mistake by the guys in front of you to catch up, If you did it with motor, you dumped. I agree that in Oval chassis tuning is a bit more important w 4-cells because you need to carry EVERY bit of available speed, all the time. But Oval cannot be compared to TC directly. The dynamics of the tracks are entirely different, and the cars are SIGNIFICANTLY heavier, with a ton more drivetrain drag.

4-cell worked in Oval and 12th scale because the classes were originated when it took 6-cells to make a car move at anything that resembled an acceptable pace.

Oval cars are faster now than they were in the six-cell days because of advances in chassis, tire, motor and battery technology. The entire package evolved to the point where six-cells were no longer necessary, and were actually OVERKILL. I don't think TC's have reached that stage in their evolution.
All good points,and I guess after some thought you're probably right.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:27 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
Just think if we had to trailbrake manually!!!

RC racing is harder than racing a full size car or kart. And I think knowledge needed to succed in RC is higher than big cars too.


As a former Kart racer I can tell you that you are incorrect. To be competetive, the amount on knowledge you need is immense, not to mention the $$. Think $40 for a set of RC tires is expensive, try $150-200 for a Kart. Crash an RC car and there goes $15-20 for a suspension arm and hub, crash a Kart and tweek a chassis or bend a spindle and rim $$$$....not to mention the potential repercussions of the crash on the body. Remember, no matter HOW HARD you crash an RC car, you aren't going to get hurt. RC racing IS hard, but please don't say that it is harder or requires more know how than racing a full size car or Kart.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:30 PM   #210
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Crashes can hurt you...if you don't beleive that go marshall 1/8 scale
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