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Old 01-13-2005, 11:31 AM   #151
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@ JLock

Well, I dont learn that way. I learn best by looking at the completed machie and going backwards. Yes, there are going to be people who buy kits and dont wat to listen to proppr advice or take time to learn. And they wil become dissapointed, and weed themselves out of the racing fields. There is no perfect way to satify everyone. There are MANY of who buy RTR's and spend the time needed. I spent 6 MONTHS researchig and talking to local racers before buying my car. I poured through countless websites and magazines reading about all the different ones. So dont generalize, (not saying you did). Your right, many will get frustrated and not listen, and they usually dont last long, before the figure out what they need to do, or quit.

But the point is, at least RTR can get them in and trying it out. If they are of the right mindset, then they will do as they should and learn their car, and then we have new bood on the tracks we may not have had before.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:36 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Wow, this little thread certainly grew overnight. JLock pretty much summed up my thoughts far more eloquently than I had initially expressed them. Many of you guys know me, many don't. The ones that do know me know that I'm fully in favor of the growth of the sport, and will go out of my way to help the new guy at the track. I work in a hobby store and make every attempt to promote the sport every chance I get. I have no problem helping another racer "step-up" and get competitive. The problem is I want them to "STEP-UP", I don't want to "step-down", to make them more competitive.

If this hobby ceases to be challenging, I just won't do it anymore. I guess I'd just announce.........
Just helping a fellow racer out. We have debates like this from time to time at the tracks that I race here in Dallas. It is good that topics like this are being brought to forums to be discussed and debated on in a friendly manner, for the most part.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:37 AM   #153
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patrick - it's not that we want to slow the cars down. We want the motor to last more than one run before needind new brushes and cutting the comm. 4 cell was an idea in which to do this. Slowing the cars down slightly is an unfortunate by-product of this. Another thing we can do to slow the cars down and increase motor life is disallow tire inserts. The cars wont grip near as as good and the load to the motor will go down and you will almost always have more horspower than you need. Imagine the bitching if we instituted a rule like that.

Jeff's post is right on. People definately helped me get to the level I am at. And I have passed the tradition on and helped some other people (one of which won a NORRCA Stock Truck National). We as the ambassadors of this sport need to step out and lend a hand to the new people in the hobby. Let's not wait for them to come to us for help, let's go to the and offer it. The future of this sport is in all of our hands.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:40 AM   #154
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Instant gratification is found everywhere these days, fast food, video games that have an "easy" option, people that want to start at the top in their job/career, car leases and credit cards instead of saving up, etc... and the list goes on. I think its a trend that will end at some point as people realize there isn't much value in it. It will be interesting to see how RC racing survives this. One thing is certain, it won't be the same, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:42 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zala
@ JLock

Well, I dont learn that way. I learn best by looking at the completed machie and going backwards. Yes, there are going to be people who buy kits and dont wat to listen to proppr advice or take time to learn. And they wil become dissapointed, and weed themselves out of the racing fields. There is no perfect way to satify everyone. There are MANY of who buy RTR's and spend the time needed. I spent 6 MONTHS researchig and talking to local racers before buying my car. I poured through countless websites and magazines reading about all the different ones. So dont generalize, (not saying you did). Your right, many will get frustrated and not listen, and they usually dont last long, before the figure out what they need to do, or quit.

But the point is, at least RTR can get them in and trying it out. If they are of the right mindset, then they will do as they should and learn their car, and then we have new bood on the tracks we may not have had before.
Zala,

I am not knocking folks like you. If more of the RTR buyers went about it like you, it would be better for the hobby as a whole. Like I said before, RTRs and brushless kits have their place, just don't overlook the mountain of other factors that will help an enthusiast become a racer.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:55 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by JLock
Zala,

I am not knocking folks like you. If more of the RTR buyers went about it like you, it would be better for the hobby as a whole. Like I said before, RTRs and brushless kits have their place, just don't overlook the mountain of other factors that will help an enthusiast become a racer.
Agreed. And by no means was I insinuating that you were knocking me. I only fear there will be this growing trend to look down on guys who the RTR thing. I have my TC3, I am gonna race stock class and see if I like it. If I do, then I will definately go to a kit, where I can slowly build her up, with qulity parts, and use my RTR to continue learning the ropes of driving. I just hope that as you said, we can get more guys and gals to take the same attitude.
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:57 AM   #157
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I must admit I got into this hobby because of RTR four short years ago and quickly became addicted. Look where it got me, I now have a shop and track. I also had mechanical ability ( 1:1 mechanic for 15 years ) so working on it was no problem.

I see people every day that look at the price of a RTR then look at the price of a kit and all that is needed to get in going and 75 % go with RTR, if it was not available they would walk out the door. So I guess my point is that yes RTR is great for the hobby, but if something breaks or they need to do maintenance they stop running the car. On the other side if someone builds a kit they have time invested in it before they even get to run and tend to stick with it longer. I have had a limited amount of customers move up from RTR to a kit but this has been a small percentage.

This just seems to be a trend in our area.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:02 PM   #158
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CypressMidwest just brought up a very, very good point. It is about "stepping up" versus "stepping down". When many of us participate at bigger races, we don't ask Berry, Cyrul, Burch, Kinwald, et. al. to step down to our level. We work to step up to their level. I have noticed the same thing that Cypress has noticed about the new generation of r/c racer: many want the more experienced racers to step back to them instead of them stepping up to the higher level of competition. I have, and still, been working to reach the Berry/Burch/Cyrul/Kinwald level. New racers should want to progress up instead of wanting the higher level of racers to regress down. Just another $0.02.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:05 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Welte
I must admit I got into this hobby because of RTR four short years ago and quickly became addicted. Look where it got me, I now have a shop and track. I also had mechanical ability ( 1:1 mechanic for 15 years ) so working on it was no problem.

I see people every day that look at the price of a RTR then look at the price of a kit and all that is needed to get in going and 75 % go with RTR, if it was not available they would walk out the door. So I guess my point is that yes RTR is great for the hobby, but if something breaks or they need to do maintenance they stop running the car. On the other side if someone builds a kit they have time invested in it before they even get to run and tend to stick with it longer. I have had a limited amount of customers move up from RTR to a kit but this has been a small percentage.

This just seems to be a trend in our area.
Good point. I have noticed the same things in my visits (hang-outs, more like it ) to my LHSs.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:05 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Wow, this little thread certainly grew overnight. JLock pretty much summed up my thoughts far more eloquently than I had initially expressed them. Many of you guys know me, many don't. The ones that do know me know that I'm fully in favor of the growth of the sport, and will go out of my way to help the new guy at the track. I work in a hobby store and make every attempt to promote the sport every chance I get. I have no problem helping another racer "step-up" and get competitive. The problem is I want them to "STEP-UP", I don't want to "step-down", to make them more competitive.

If this hobby ceases to be challenging, I just won't do it anymore. I guess I'd just announce.........
we got your back!
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:07 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zala
Agreed. And by no means was I insinuating that you were knocking me. I only fear there will be this growing trend to look down on guys who the RTR thing. I have my TC3, I am gonna race stock class and see if I like it. If I do, then I will definately go to a kit, where I can slowly build her up, with qulity parts, and use my RTR to continue learning the ropes of driving. I just hope that as you said, we can get more guys and gals to take the same attitude.
Keep up the good work on progressing up that ladder. Much success to you.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:11 PM   #162
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I didn't start this thread to bash on the RTR's. I'm concerned with the current sentiment that everything has to be EASY. I love the fact that it's easier to get competitive equipment at a much lower cost than ever before. The GP cells are the greatest thing that's ever happend to electric racing because they are so much better than any cell that has preceeded them.

My argument is that the hobby is losing it's competitive focus. People seem uninterested in learning the ins and outs and just expect to go in, plunk down their money, and be instantly competitive. This is a hobby/sport. Golf requires comittment, as does, billiards, darts and anything else. You have to learn the game. I don't feel R/C should be any different.

Brushless will eventually become the norm, and that isn't nearly as big a concern to me as this 4-cell TC movement. I have no desire to see the cars that I race slowed down. A slower car is EASIER to drive, and will be more forgiving of poor set-up because you'll no longer be able to overpower the car.

I like each aspect of racing, (aside from painting ), and I don't want to see it diluted to the point where the only thing I do is drive. I love the challenges the current formula provides.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:12 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zala
Agreed. And by no means was I insinuating that you were knocking me. I only fear there will be this growing trend to look down on guys who the RTR thing. I have my TC3, I am gonna race stock class and see if I like it. If I do, then I will definately go to a kit, where I can slowly build her up, with qulity parts, and use my RTR to continue learning the ropes of driving. I just hope that as you said, we can get more guys and gals to take the same attitude.
I can say as for me I dont look down on the guys with rtr's . Its great for the hobby because theres an in. Its just when people gripe and cry and say its too hard.
And dont realize if they had read the manual or book it is simple!.
We dont care if some of the stuff is user friendly it when you take it for GRANTED!
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:17 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
I can say as for me I dont look down on the guys with rtr's . Its great for the hobby because theres an in. Its just when people gripe and cry and say its too hard.
And dont realize if they had read the manual or book it is simple!.
We dont care if some of the stuff is user friendly it when you take it for GRANTED!
Excellent observation!!! One of the best posts yet on this topic (haven't forgotten about you CypressMidwest ).
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:21 PM   #165
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This thread has a lot of meaning for me because one of my old Karting buddies asked me to get him inot RC racing!!! I more than happily obliged-but not without a LOT of guilt or anxiety. Hes a grown man-he has a good job. But still-I want his introduction to this sport to be both easy as well as inexpensive.

The cost of entry is staggering if you dont have "friends" in the sport. There is not one thing on his car that is new. Use TC3, used tires, used bodies and i loaned him packs, esc and servo. He bought his own nice radio and car and charger-I set it all upfor him and basically have just told him to drive it as much as he can and he has.

So-the problem as it relates to dumbing down the sport is this-how does one make the introduction to RC racing for a newcomer easier, fun, enriching, cost effective-all the while hoping to not dilute the process so much that longterm he does not have the neccesary tools to succeed on his own?

There needs to be some spoonfeeding up front. KISS applies here-Keep It Simple Stupid.
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