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Old 04-13-2005, 06:44 PM   #121
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Tire warmers are always nice to have bu tI never thought of using them for heat cycling. Very clever.
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:40 PM   #122
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I was just wondering if is it just me or are the RP wheels a tad smaller in diameter than the current crop of wheels out there. When I was getting ready to glue the RP tires onto the wheel, I noticed that the wheel didn't really fit the wheel all too well. I'm wondering if maybe I got a bad batch or is this normal. I didn't measure the wheels, but comparing the RP to the HPI and YOK wheels the RPs seem smaller. So instead of using the RP, I used the HPI dish wheel.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:39 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdwca
Any recommendations on what temp and duration to set the warmers at for cycling through the sets?
I guess about the temp you would normally see would be a good start. The chemistry behind all of this is just to get the tires to what they would normally be running at during competition, and they dont have to sit at that temp long. Since the tire is probably a little cooler than what the temp probe on the tire warmers is telling you, I would set it maybe 10 deg F hotter than what you think you would see. I'd think letting the tire sit for maybe a minute or 2 at that temp should be plenty, just long enough to activate whatever reaction happens naturally.

I'd think this is a good start for new tires, but I will still give my tires a decent 2 minute workout during thier first run, and store them for a day or more before racing on them. The "non abrasive" heat cycle does help, but it doesn't replace actually working the tire. The biggest advantage to this should be longevity, not just the carcas, but the competitiveness of the tire over more runs. Hopefully that is the outcome.

When you see all those big autoracing teams running sticker tires, consider they don't have to use them more than once, like most of us do.

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Old 04-14-2005, 11:32 AM   #124
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Hi,

Here are some more rubber tire for dummies questions. In general, when comparing two tires in a product line (e.g. CS-22 vs. CS-27), is it the case that the tread thickness on the higher-grip (or lower temperature) tire is thinner than the lower-grip (or higher temperature) tire ? Or, is the difference between the tires in a product line due entirely to the material? Combination of both? For instance, from the article on the Tamiya USA web site about the TCS national winning F1 car, the author ran the harder, higher temperature "B" F1 tire without inserts, commenting that the thicker tread on the "B" provided enough support to obviate the use of an insert. Is it easier or cheaper for a manufacturer to develop or obtain a "good" rubber compound and then make molds for tires with varying tread thickness? A related thought is whether or not anyone has done much with resurfacing rubber tires. Thanks.

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Old 04-14-2005, 11:36 AM   #125
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It the compound and how sticky it is a t x temp higher temp the harder the compound . they alll will increase in wear when you go above the recomended temperature limit. Get them too hot and the grip goes off as well cause the rubber has over heated and is acting like it a liquid or oil in terms of grip loss.
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Old 04-14-2005, 11:36 AM   #126
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A lot of it depends on the philosophy of the manufacturer themselves. Some simply use the same compound in various thicknesses, while others change the chemical composition from one compound to another. As far as the Tamiya B F1 tires versus the A's, it is a physically harder and less pliable tire than the A is.
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Old 04-14-2005, 11:47 AM   #127
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Hey Andy,

I think that Neil Rabara's comments were more to the fact that the B tire, being a harder compound, had enough support to run without an insert, while the A is simply too soft to support the car without inserts. There is quite a difference between those compounds, but I don't think there is any thickness difference, plus they are specialized tires, not the norm.

I have not expierienced different thickness with different compounds with the tires I use. I don't see why a tire manufacturer would make a softer tire thinner. That would only cause the tire to over heat quicker, with less mass to fill.

Think of it this way... try to get a rubber band to stand verticle on it's own, then try taking a slice off the eraser on your No. 2 pencil that is roughly the same thickness as the rubber band, and standing it on end, or just try to bend it. Different compounds of rubber.

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Old 04-14-2005, 06:05 PM   #128
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Hi,

Thanks for the replies. Knowing that tread thickness isn't a variable to worry about is good.

Andy
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:25 AM   #129
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Hi,

In general, for rubber tires on asphalt, are there any rules of thumb about set-ups that use a front one-way versus set-ups that use a front diff (e.g. something like "I typically use/don't use harder springs, more droop, sway bars, etc.")? To guide any responses, here is some additional information:

1. I understand that the use of a front diff on asphalt (with rubber tires) isn't likely anyone's preferred choice. I believe this is in part because you don't get the same, on-power, corner exit acceleration when compared to a spool or oneway.

2. I'm asking about front diffs versus front one-ways because I've spent a year racing the same chassis with rubber tires on asphalt with a front diff and I recently picked up a front-one way. With a year's worth of set-up sheets, I have some vague idea about "successful" set-ups with the front diff. I'm hoping a general rule of thumb about front one-ways might set me on the right path for adjustments.

3. Some tracks lend themselves to one-ways better than others. My understanding is that tracks that require braking to be fast aren't good candidates for one-ways. One-way tracks are described as "flowing" which I take to mean few or no turns require much, if any, braking to be fast. Given that, how would you categorize the asphalt outdoor track at Toys For Boys in Georgia? For fun, pretend the Spool Monster has eaten all of your spools (hey, it could happen!). Would you use a one-way there or a diff? How does the amount of traction play into things? Thanks.

Andy

http://tfbraceway.com/modules.php?na...showpage&pid=4
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:09 AM   #130
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Hey,
THis thread has proven to be a great resource for rubbertire impaired types like me!! Thanks to alll who answer our questions.

NOw-I am wonderinng-do most of you guys start with your tire choice more on air temperature or on track temperature (as read by a temp. gun)?

Ray
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:21 AM   #131
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Nice thread guys!

To chime in on the tire balancing... if it could be done effectively, I agree it would be a wonderful thing. 4 or 5 years ago I wondered why on earth we wouldn't balance our tires. Then while attending the Japanese Nationals some time later, I pushed the issue with the team drivers. We actually had a very good discussion on the issue. The short story is that the inserts move inside the tire too much and would negate any attempt to balance the tire. As soon as you hit full throttle on first straight (or maybe sooner) the insert would have already rotated from its original position, making them unbalanced again. When you really take a look at a used tire that has been cut apart, you can see that the insert has rotated inside the glued tire and wheel, especially when running larger air gaps.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:48 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhuang
Hey,
THis thread has proven to be a great resource for rubbertire impaired types like me!! Thanks to alll who answer our questions.

NOw-I am wonderinng-do most of you guys start with your tire choice more on air temperature or on track temperature (as read by a temp. gun)?

Ray
Ray - Usually you buy what the local fast guys are using. For daytime asphalt racing that is usually the Take Off CS27GL (all weather), Sorex 36R(hot weather) or the new Take Off RP30GL (warm weather) or RP36GL (hot weather).

For night racing the CS22GL is the only choice. Its that much faster than everything else in cool weather or at night.

We use traction compounds to help tailor the tires grip to the track temp.

Paragon GFX cold to cool weather and at night
Paragon FXII or Niftech for cool to warm weather
50/50 mix of FXII and Tire Tweak when its hot.
Straight Tire Tweak when it Blazing hot

After a run clean your tires with a little Buggy grip sprayed on a rag.

CS Seem to like ~15 of sauce time with the Paragon ands Niftech products. When using tweak let it sit as long as you can...the longer the better.

Sorex tires are about the same as above.

RP tires are very affected by Paragon and Niftech so sauce for no longer than ~5 min. Longer than that ands they get too soft and will get greasy late in a run. Tire Tweak is the best traction for RP's. As with CS tires let it sit as long as possible.

Before walking up to Tech for your run wipe off whatever sauce you used as good as you can then spray some buggy grip on a rag and clean off your tires. The buggy grip will get you your hole shot/first lap traction.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:52 AM   #133
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Adrian-heres the problem-I will be the "only" guy running rubber tires locally and I havent even done it yet. I plan on running the Tamiya Nats and have NEVER raced a RC car on rubber tires on asphlt. About 2 or 3 times on a concrete track-but thats was 4 years ago or so. I am completely green.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-09-2005, 12:09 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavid
Hi,

In general, for rubber tires on asphalt, are there any rules of thumb about set-ups that use a front one-way versus set-ups that use a front diff (e.g. something like "I typically use/don't use harder springs, more droop, sway bars, etc.")? To guide any responses, here is some additional information:

1. I understand that the use of a front diff on asphalt (with rubber tires) isn't likely anyone's preferred choice. I believe this is in part because you don't get the same, on-power, corner exit acceleration when compared to a spool or oneway.

2. I'm asking about front diffs versus front one-ways because I've spent a year racing the same chassis with rubber tires on asphalt with a front diff and I recently picked up a front-one way. With a year's worth of set-up sheets, I have some vague idea about "successful" set-ups with the front diff. I'm hoping a general rule of thumb about front one-ways might set me on the right path for adjustments.

3. Some tracks lend themselves to one-ways better than others. My understanding is that tracks that require braking to be fast aren't good candidates for one-ways. One-way tracks are described as "flowing" which I take to mean few or no turns require much, if any, braking to be fast. Given that, how would you categorize the asphalt outdoor track at Toys For Boys in Georgia? For fun, pretend the Spool Monster has eaten all of your spools (hey, it could happen!). Would you use a one-way there or a diff? How does the amount of traction play into things? Thanks.

Andy

http://tfbraceway.com/modules.php?na...showpage&pid=4
If the spool monster ate it I would take a diff and lock it down! I have run there and you do need a spool and if not atleast a diff before a oneway.
There are 2to3 areas where you to slow down too much and if you want to pass someone you'll need brakes there, especially the hair pin at the end of the straight away and the left hander after the chicane section!

Lock that diff dude!
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Old 06-09-2005, 12:12 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhuang
Hey,
THis thread has proven to be a great resource for rubbertire impaired types like me!! Thanks to alll who answer our questions.

NOw-I am wonderinng-do most of you guys start with your tire choice more on air temperature or on track temperature (as read by a temp. gun)?

Ray
Ray track temp is the biggest issue next to the rate the tires get schreaded. If the track is cool but gets eating up fast a harder compound is next!
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