R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-13-2005, 08:10 AM   #106
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 187
Default

Hi,

Here's a rubber tires for dummies question. A new indoor asphalt track has opened near my part of the world, and it's a great facility with large amounts of traction. For instance, watching a heat of fast guys last weekend, I would have bet I was looking at a race being run on carpet with foams. I also witnessed plenty of people traction rolling throughout the day as well. So, over the course of my three qualifiers, my car's handling began to degrade. By that, I mean it went from having a decent balance of front/rear bite (both lateral and forward) to not having enough bite anywhere and consequently doing a lot of sliding/diffing out. Not un-driveable, but not as good as it had been. I tried some suspension changes before the main, and they didn't affect much. Finally, I put on a new set of CS-27s. I ran them a couple laps to break them in and it was a night and day difference. The car handled better than it had all day. The set of CS-27s I took off the car had about 15 runs (of stock sedan) on them. They looked somewhat worn in places, but not horrible. Given that this surface has such high grip, my (faulty) logic would have dictated that anything even resembling a rubber tire (e.g. a couple of cut-up balloons and electrical tape - j/k) would have worked as good as the next tire. But, that was not the case. Does anyone have an explanation of what has actually changed in the tire rendering it "worn out?" (e.g. rubber isn't flexible anymore after so many heat cycles, the uneven tire surface doesn't hook up anymore, etc.) Just curious. Sorry if this has been discussed previously. Thanks.

Andy
adavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 10:48 AM   #107
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ridin my Harley
Posts: 707
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Adam Hartzell
Default

adavid--When a tire heats up the chemicals that make up the compound sort of mesh together and that is what causes the tire to become sticky. If the tire becomes real hot (ie. racing conditions) some of the chemicals will seap onto the track. Very similar to the way a foam tire degrades becaust the foam sticks to the track surface. After so many runs a rubber tire will no longer have that proper chemical make-up that allowes it to stick so well. 15 runs sounds close to the life of a CS-27 depending on how hard you are driving the car.

I have a track just like you described near me (indoor asphalt very high bite). I prefer to run a 32 compound tire as it dosen't break down as fast. Although it dosen't stick as well.

Hope this answers your question.
Adam Hartzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:08 AM   #108
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 187
Default

Adam,

Thanks for the explanation. I can buy that! I am thinking of trying the CS-32 option myself. I'm hoping that on-power, the CS-32s will slide laterally a bit more, instead of digging in like the CS-27s sometimes do (the high-bite-induced digging in seems to promote some inside tire lifting and diffing out), providing better forward bite off the turns. I guess this is one reason spools are popular.

Andy

p.s. Any way to scrape all those chemicals off the track and resell them? Ha!
adavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:19 AM   #109
Tech Champion
 
Jon Kerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,658
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

If you're getting 15 runs on a set of 27's, you're getting good wear. I run them about 5 and their done. But that's also outdoors running modified. Adam's description is perfect.

Last edited by Jon Kerr; 04-13-2005 at 11:31 AM.
Jon Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:21 AM   #110
Tech Champion
 
Korey Harbke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,126
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

The 32 is actually a pretty good tire too. The temp range isn;t as wide in my opinion, but on those REALLY hot days they last alot longer. Your car free's up too!!!

-Korey
__________________
Xray - RC America - Hudy - Apex RC - LRP - Protoform - AVID - 1Up Racing - Xenon - Xpert - Sanwa - RC Mission America - SpeedZombi - Slapmaster Tools - Turtlemaster Racing - Seattle RC Racers
Korey Harbke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:26 AM   #111
Tech Champion
 
rayhuang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Posts: 6,511
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to rayhuang
Default

In karting-when possible we would season tires. One short hard run-this would get the tires sticky compound to change and settle back down-then let them sit overnight before running again. The idea was that this procedure would allow the tire to perform at a higher level for much longer during a race and also over a longer number of heat cycles.

I dont think RC rubber tires are even 0.001 as sticky as a kart tire-but maybe if anyone had the time or budget to test this-it might have some merit.

Ray
rayhuang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:32 AM   #112
Tech Champion
 
Korey Harbke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,126
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Cool, it's just getting a quick heat cycle in them. Might be something to try if one is bored lol. Maybe I'll do it this weekend!

-Korey
__________________
Xray - RC America - Hudy - Apex RC - LRP - Protoform - AVID - 1Up Racing - Xenon - Xpert - Sanwa - RC Mission America - SpeedZombi - Slapmaster Tools - Turtlemaster Racing - Seattle RC Racers
Korey Harbke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:34 AM   #113
Tech Champion
 
rayhuang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Posts: 6,511
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to rayhuang
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Sushi Boy
Cool, it's just getting a quick heat cycle in them. Might be something to try if one is bored lol. Maybe I'll do it this weekend!

-Korey
I temped my tires on carpet and they were only 90 degrees on the left front and 80 on the other 3. SO to counterpoint myself, I wonder if any chemical process occours in these tires at that low of temp. Outdoors I am sure they get a lot hotter though.
rayhuang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:36 AM   #114
Tech Champion
 
Jon Kerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,658
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
In karting-when possible we would season tires. One short hard run-this would get the tires sticky compound to change and settle back down-then let them sit overnight before running again. The idea was that this procedure would allow the tire to perform at a higher level for much longer during a race and also over a longer number of heat cycles.

I dont think RC rubber tires are even 0.001 as sticky as a kart tire-but maybe if anyone had the time or budget to test this-it might have some merit.

Ray
I kind of did this with Sorex tires once. I had two brand new sets and I went out and run 5 laps on one set to scuff them and get them warm, pull it in, change tires, and do it again to a second set. They seemed better at the start of their race but I didn't notice any extra life. But like I said, I only did it once. You'd need to do it much more to find out if there's any consistancy to it.
Jon Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:38 AM   #115
Tech Adept
 
SCML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 197
Default

This technique is used in full size racing also. Tires need a gradual build up of heat over about 5 or 6 laps (full size), going about 9/10ths the lap before coming off the track, then storing the tires for a minimum of 24 hours, preferably a week. Tires have a longer competitive life this way. Going hard out of the box, or not cycling them properly kills them quick (more wear, blistering and short competitive life).

Rubber is rubber, and this can't hurt in RC tires. They don't get as hot as a full size tire does, but I generally try to get a break in run of a bout 3 minutes on each new set. Then I pack them away to use for a race a few days or a week later. I don't have any concrete data to support longer life and more consistancy with RC tires though.

A psuedo heat cycle could be performed with tire warmers also. The Tire Rack sells a heat cycling service with sets of race tires which is basically what you could do with some tire warmers.

Mike
SCML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:38 AM   #116
Tech Champion
 
Jon Kerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,658
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by rayhuang
I temped my tires on carpet and they were only 90 degrees on the left front and 80 on the other 3. SO to counterpoint myself, I wonder if any chemical process occours in these tires at that low of temp. Outdoors I am sure they get a lot hotter though.
I've temped my tires at 140F on hot days with track temps over 150F.
Jon Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:41 AM   #117
Tech Champion
 
Jon Kerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,658
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

SCML- that's a good idea. I'll try putting new tires on warmers when I get them at home before I go to the track and see how well it works.
Jon Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 11:44 AM   #118
Tech Champion
 
Korey Harbke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,126
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Yeah, its not abnormal to see my tires get that hot either lol.

-Korey
__________________
Xray - RC America - Hudy - Apex RC - LRP - Protoform - AVID - 1Up Racing - Xenon - Xpert - Sanwa - RC Mission America - SpeedZombi - Slapmaster Tools - Turtlemaster Racing - Seattle RC Racers
Korey Harbke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 05:35 PM   #119
Tech Elite
 
Jon Williams's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,753
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Cool thread, guys.

Any recommendations on what temp and duration to set the warmers at for cycling through the sets? We're still in the upper 50s/low 60s on race days and the track temp gets around 100* F max.
Jon Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2005, 06:08 PM   #120
Tech Master
 
TigeRyan's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,389
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to TigeRyan
Default

I was told when working with warmers 80 degrees is a nice temperature to get the tires up to....that what I am going to use as a starting point and adjust from there...
__________________
SixFootTiger Cell Phone R/C Calculator - http://cell.sixfoottiger.com -
Android Marketing Place - R/C Calculator (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.sixfoottiger.andoid.rccalc&feature=search_result)
TigeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
M18 Pro & Rubber Tires BIGTACO Micro and Mini Scales 9 06-14-2012 08:18 PM
Foam Tires for Dummies swopemike Electric On-Road 51 04-14-2008 10:59 PM
best rubber tires rc_speed Electric On-Road 11 05-02-2007 10:37 AM
Take-Off CS27 tires plus other rubber tires Scottrik R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 12-20-2005 10:23 AM
FS: Rubber TC Tires AZ_Ron R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 01-12-2005 10:17 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:02 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net