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Old 12-28-2004, 01:01 PM   #91
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I have never suggested going to 8 min racing. Keeping it at 5 lets you motor up and still make time.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:01 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
without numbers to associate with savings, statistics etc., it just becomes a thread of opinions.
Better to have no numbers than inaccurate ones. Technical debates in online forums usually go way off subject anyway. I mean we've already gotten into water heaters and 4/5 sub c cells.

I'm not real hot to trot on reducing TC racing to 4 cell across the board. Like I said I'd like to see stock racing be replaced with 4 cell mod. That said I'm going to run a couple of my 4 cell 12th packs in my Mod TC (Xray) this Wednesday during practice. Hopefully with a lot of people at least trying it out to see what it 'feels' like we can come up with more appropriate suggestions. As it stands now... it is indeed only a thread of predominantly unsupported opinions.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:05 PM   #93
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JKA - Be sure to gear way up when you do this. At least 3-4 teeth to start...maybe more after you get a few runs in. I had to go 8 teeth higher (25/100 to 33/110) on my 1/12 when I switched from 6 to 4 cell stock.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:06 PM   #94
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I'm not totally sold on this. I think it's a very good idea if it can be prooved. Personally I think the only way it would take off is if an exhibition class were put together at a major race. Have it be open entry and see what kind of racing it produces.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:07 PM   #95
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I like the idea of mod 4 cell, but then the prices will still be basically the same because most will buy hand wound motors which are about $25 more than stock motors. I also like the idea of a 55t motor, but there would still be a battle with the motor tuners and battery matchers.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:11 PM   #96
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I agree with Derek about the girls!

I think the classes are fine right now.

The problem I see is that the US does not have many tracks that are fun to race at.

Dont get me wrong we do have some super fun places to race but they are few and far between.
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Old 12-28-2004, 01:43 PM   #97
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TJ-Yea, we live in the U.S., and the only way to have fun for most of us is to go out and race hard. I have fun racing as hard as I can and being as competitive as I can all the time, It makes it that much more of a challenege everytime I hit the track.
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:23 PM   #98
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Quote:
4 cells give you better control, lower costs, no new equipment required (all chargers and dischargers have 4 cells modes) and better motor/tire life
How do you see getting better motor life when you are drawing 6/4 more current? If you were drawing 30 Amps, now you will have to draw 45 amps to get the same power. Are your GP's good for that?
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:23 PM   #99
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Usually changes happen when a 19t 4 cell guy shows up locally beating 19t 6 cell guys. I know that would grab my attention as well as the whole 19t crowd or even track...
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:36 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by kufman
How do you see getting better motor life when you are drawing 6/4 more current? If you were drawing 30 Amps, now you will have to draw 45 amps to get the same power. Are your GP's good for that?
Motors are much more efficient when you flow less voltage through them. You will get less heat and more power relative to the amount of current used. The motor will also see less load due to the car being lighter.

We went from making right at 6 min runtime 7 cell 13 turn to 7.5 min runtime 6 cell 11 turn when we made the switch in offroad. The motors were cooler after a 4 minute run and we used less brushes and cut comms less when we dropped down. Since motors and batteries have gotten so good, offroad could probably be competitive going to 4-cell if they are allowed the weight break. I most guys are running 12 to 14 turn in 2wheel. I think a 8-9 turn 4-cell could easily run with 6-cell cars.

The precedent is there. We have dropped back on voltage twice and both times it has been a benefit. Both times it has made it easier on batteries and motors. There will be premium on high voltage cells but that exhists now anyway, you will just need to buy 2 less cells per pack.
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:51 PM   #101
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Actually it isn't the voltage that causes the heat, but I think I will give up on trying to explain that.
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:53 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
The precedent is there. We have dropped back on voltage twice and both times it has been a benefit.
The issue is that these two previous voltage drops were done because drivability was an issue. Oval cars were too much to handle and Offroaders were spinning tires like wild. Logically a cutback on voltage would help there... as it did.

With TCs however there is no "problem" that is precipitating this suggestion to go to 4 cell racing. Rather its an advancement in technology that is at the root of the discussion. This is why I'm hesitant about accepting a switch to 4 cell. If there were a problem then I would back the idea, but as it stands it seems to me that we are limiting racers because of advances in racing gear. That doesn't mean there won't be benefits, but is there viable justification for changing the entire racing scene? People keep claiming it worked for oval and offroad... and perhaps it did, but in those situations there were viable problems to overcome. We don't have those problems with TC so the analogy isn't accurate.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:04 PM   #103
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kufman - Like Jack said it really does work out the way you say. We do not live in a world of simple mathematical relationships. There are a lot more variables affecting our cars than just voltage, resistance and amps.

The oval guys were dumping in 4 minutes with 6 cell 2000's. Now they dump 4 cell 3300's in the same 4 minutes. They are obviously drawing more amps but their motors are certainly in better shape after each run.

I am not an engineer so I can only express what I know in empirical terms. The motors do last longer.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:17 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by DerekB
As opposed to off road which hasn't been infected with "Spec" tires at nationals too much yet. I see new tires and compound all the time.

Rules are good for some levels of racing...at the top rules stop development.
I went to the ROAR Off-road Modified Nationals this past year, my track owner went the year before, also. Both races had 'hand-out' tires. These limitations were set to allow the unsponsored drivers to have access to the same tires that the Pros race. Not only were the tires limited in spec, they were also limited in quantity allowed to race.

Back on topic: I think that IF my local track were to say lets give 4 cell sedan a go, I would be one of the first to give it a shot. I raced 1/12th pan 14 years ago. Making a 1700 SCE last 8 minutes on a budget was the name of the game. Not only did we play the numbers game, we also tracked the batch codes, as some had a strange tendancy to take more abuse than others.. With the increased capacity, there is no reason why a sedan cannot make the time running even full mod with the average race cells available today.

OT: I would rather go through more foam and have the carpet last longer than pay higher prices over the long haul just so the local tracks can afford to replace the carpet more often.
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:20 PM   #105
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I can't resist. 240v comes to your house on 2 phases at 60Hz. Those phases are split into 120v lines with a "neutral"(grounded? conductor). You could run stuff at 240v, but with the exception of incandescent lights, you would be frying most things in short order.

In Europe, its 220v, but at 50Hz, which will F up certain appliances. I don't know how they bring in the voltage, as 440v and split it or something else.
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