R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-11-2005, 06:58 AM   #421
Tech Regular
 
SammyXp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 428
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by andsetinn
Quick calculation gives me about 300 watt-hours being used to dump 6 cell 3600 mAh pack in 5 minutes.
Going to 4 cell and gearing same cells to dump in 5 minutes gives me about 200 watt-hours. Now which formula do you think lets the motors last longer. And with 4 cell you can use slightly cheaper ESCs because there is less load on them.
Excellent summation.
So you'd have about 2/3 the power density, but with nearly 10% less weight to carry around, the motor will not be laboring quite as hard with the new steep gearing one would require.

Once again, I like this idea for a novice class. Budget ESC'c, less weight, less stress, fewer broken parts, easier to drive, longer lasting motors, etc.
SammyXp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 07:52 AM   #422
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default 4 cell sedan not a bad idea...

... and since the thought was started by two of the gentlemen from a motor manufacturing I would like to see that they would also start finding ways to bring down the cost of the motors like what serpent did on the Mega line of engines- that would be a much bigger impact on the electric TC
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 08:06 AM   #423
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newville,Pa
Posts: 2,152
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default Re: 4 cell sedan not a bad idea...

Quote:
Originally posted by centax error!
... and since the thought was started by two of the gentlemen from a motor manufacturing I would like to see that they would also start finding ways to bring down the cost of the motors like what serpent did on the Mega line of engines- that would be a much bigger impact on the electric TC

Make the switch to 4 cells and the motors will last almost twice as long..... so the price of the motors really wouldn't need to come down... Funny how that works.....lol

but some guys would stil find ways to burn motors up in 5 minutes.......
__________________
G's RC Raceway- Best off-road track on the east coast...period!!!

Pitman for Team Dallas Austin...
IMPACTPLAYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 08:27 AM   #424
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default motor pricing

Quote:
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
Make the switch to 4 cells and the motors will last almost twice as long..... so the price of the motors really wouldn't need to come down... Funny how that works.....lol

but some guys would stil find ways to burn motors up in 5 minutes.......
if we can cut the cells into 4 then whats wrong if the price of the motor will come down also
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 09:26 AM   #425
Tech Elite
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,897
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Actually I think the price of motors is going to go up. I heard ROAR is going to up the maximum retail across the board. I am not opposed to this. Maximum retail was at $80 in the 80s and early 90s and then went to $90. The manufacturers should be able to make a little more on motors. I think its time for them to start allowing bearings in stock though.
__________________
Kyosho / Orion / Amain.com / Protek / MIP /
Jack Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 09:36 AM   #426
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default

...does this mean that one of the reason for the 4 cell was to compensate for the high cost of the motor it's not that I am against it though but this has to be re think or else price of a modified motor will equal to that of a top if the line .12 cc engine in less than 2 years if this trend continues

...a brave move had already been started by one of the leading name in GP car/Engine manufaturer Im hoping that someone from the EP car/motor company will follow....

Last edited by centax error!; 01-11-2005 at 09:45 AM.
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 10:12 AM   #427
Tech Elite
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,897
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

If this trend continues? The trend to increase the price once every 10 years?
__________________
Kyosho / Orion / Amain.com / Protek / MIP /
Jack Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 10:26 AM   #428
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 122
Default

now the brushless motors are coming 4 cells are a good option
Geforcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 06:01 PM   #429
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default 10 years?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
If this trend continues? The trend to increase the price once every 10 years?
maybe i am missing something bec not am pying the same price since I can remember. Seriously, we would love to see price of the motor go down also as like what the Mega engine have done in the nitro scene. I know this is gonna be a tough decission to make but it's gonna take a man like Peter B. to initiate the move.
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 06:39 PM   #430
Tech Elite
 
RCknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,273
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default I agree Jacksmash...

no reason why they can't put bearings in a stock motor. Bushings were suppose to keep prices down, but that's not the case. They should just put bearings in them.
RCknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 06:48 PM   #431
Tech Elite
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,897
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

For the price of the motor to go down, either the cost of materials would have to go down or the cost of labor to produce it. Which do you want?

Weaker magnets that are more prone to fading due to heat? Now you'll need a magnet zapper to keep your motor up.

How about a thinner can which will give the motor less torque and could possibly distort under impact?

Or how about we mandate machine wound motors to keep the price down but now you have to buy 3 or 4 to get a "good" one like you do with stocks.

I would rather the price go up and we get better quality motors that last longer than the price go down and get junk.
__________________
Kyosho / Orion / Amain.com / Protek / MIP /
Jack Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 07:27 PM   #432
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
For the price of the motor to go down, either the cost of materials would have to go down or the cost of labor to produce it. Which do you want?
both and you forgot to mention the MARGIN. Lowering labor cost does not necessarily mean reducing paychecks but having effecient production line, good distrubution flow, good balance of inventory, logistics, etc...


Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
Weaker magnets that are more prone to fading due to heat? Now you'll need a magnet zapper to keep your motor up.
How about a thinner can which will give the motor less torque and could possibly distort under impact?Or how about we mandate machine wound motors to keep the price down but now you have to buy 3 or 4 to get a "good" one like you do with stocks.I would rather the price go up and we get better quality motors that last longer than the price go down and get junk.
I am with you on giving us (racers) with the high performance motor at least cost. The motor companies have realized that motor is one of the high maintainance factor and they have come up with the idea to run 4 cells to extend motor life- EASY FOR THEM! NOW IF THEY REALLY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF ELECTRIC TC I WANT TO SEE THEM( motor company) TO INITIATE THE MOVE AND SHARPEN THEIR PENCIL AND RE THINK THEIR COSTING AND OTHERS WILL FOLLOW

Last edited by centax error!; 01-11-2005 at 10:54 PM.
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 08:59 PM   #433
Tech Master
 
Josh Cyrul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Posts: 1,409
Default

US dollar is down compared to overseas $$ so the motor mfg's have been already taking a hit due to the exchange rate - ROAR's pricing rule doesn't account for the dollar vs yen..... We've run into the same thing with lexan for bodies - prices have gone up over 18% per sheet of lexan vs 2 years ago yet prices in the hobby shop stay the same.... Just something to think about before everyone gets on the mfg's case about prices...
__________________
Destiny, Ko Propo, Hobby Wing, Ulti Racing Tires, Protoform, Xenon Racing, Pivothead, Vizon, TQ Wire & Hella Graphics
Josh Cyrul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 09:52 PM   #434
Tech Master
 
centax error!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: " Burn Rubber, Not your wallet! "
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Josh Cyrul
US dollar is down compared to overseas $$ so the motor mfg's have been already taking a hit due to the exchange rate - ROAR's pricing rule doesn't account for the dollar vs yen..... We've run into the same thing with lexan for bodies - prices have gone up over 18% per sheet of lexan vs 2 years ago yet prices in the hobby shop stay the same.... Just something to think about before everyone gets on the mfg's case about prices...
josh- this devaluation may not always be the case since US dollar is far more stable than the Yen and have held up better than any other currency today and it will probably go back if not close to where it originally started and besides how many times do we see prices of imported stuff go down everytime the Yen devaluates? and I am talking prices on the shelves not the wholesale price as prices could have rolled back from the wholesaler itself. Please let's not use this devaluation as an excuse for the manufacters/wholesaler for charging us what they think they should be charging us becuase there are still other ways to bring down the cost! The reason why I was pushing this PRICING ISSUE is that Serpent NL have done something which we all thought was IMPOSSIBLE to happen and we have learned that it needs somebody with a very strong determination and I was hoping that someone from the electric counterpart will also step up on the plate and come up with a better idea than using 4 cells. If an increase is really inevitable then that additional cost should not be all pased to the end users (racers) and must be shared between the supplier, manufacter ,dealers, retailers and the racers. We also not forget that there is this global economy thing going on (???) In the past , you need to invest heavily in properties and machineries before you can head bang with the big guys but now all you need to compete is a plane ticket and a briefcase! but for arguments sake and back to the REAL TOPIC -let's just assume that the manufacturers have run out of resources to lower the material part of the cost and is already 99.99 % effecient in the production line. Then why not re- design the motor to be more effecient? I guess that's what the R&D for right? and because the latest chassis now is designed to use 6 cell and only resort to the 4 cell idea as a third option. Okay, let's take the V2 endbell design as an example and not go the OPPOSITE DIRECTION as alot in this forum is not in favor on the 4 cell idea also. The V2 endbell and the BL system could be one of the viable options to reduce the MAINTAINANCE factor and hoping that the sanctioning bodies is gonna buy it. However, the initial cost that entails for the V2 conversion might be a turned off to some racers but if you come to think about it having lesser wear on the comm and few brushes to buy that will make a difference. On my stock motor with V2 endbell I am averaging ten runs before I start cutting the com and this is on a club race level. That same company that designed the V2 is not resting and offering a sport version of the V2 endbell and I believe street price should be inline with the standard endbell stock motor so that the technology will be made affordable. Power band for this motor has yet to be proven in club races but this is the kind of DIRECTION that we would like to see happen from the manufacturers standpoint if they really want to take this hobby into the next level I'm not suggesting that other company should copy the V2 endbell but to come up with something close to the idea if not better : nod:

...now if I can only buy a set of motor and an armature that would be an endbell less price of a motor to pay on my next trip to my LHS. Just a thought....btw, why do we only see spare armatures and not spare motor cans on the shelves?


CE

Last edited by centax error!; 01-12-2005 at 04:06 AM.
centax error! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2005, 07:49 AM   #435
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

The point Josh was making was that materials and production costs ALWAYS go up on a yearly basis but consumers expect product prices to stay the same forever. I loaf of bread in 1940 was $0.06. Now its $1.29.

Bearing in stock motors? Why? The can magents are blown out before the bushing are worn out!
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sedan Racing @ MARCCA futureal MARCCA Discussion 86 08-25-2004 06:31 PM
Alex Racing 4wd sedan PIIHB! R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 9 04-24-2004 10:39 AM
indoor sedan racing Matt M. Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 8 12-20-2001 12:04 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:44 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net