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Old 01-04-2005, 05:14 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie O
Why not run mabuchi's?!
The problem with mabuchi's is they cannot be rebuilt. Do you remember when stock motors were sealed? They got progressively worse with each run. It was a fiscal godsend when the stock motor manufacturers gave us rebuildable motors.

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Originally posted by L.Fairtrace
The major problem with this hobby/sport is there is no one good Governerning body.
Isn't that the truth!
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Old 01-04-2005, 05:44 PM   #377
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The major problem with this hobby/sport is there is no one good Governerning body. To me, aside from the nats Roar is a joke and thats pretty much the consensus of all the racers I talk to.
Are you a member of ROAR? Are you involved in trying to make ROAR better? ROAR is by the members, for the members. If you have a complaint and do nothing you only have yourself to blame, this is not only for you, but for all the racers that you have talked to that think ROAR is a joke. I have seen the ROAR directors in action. They give a lot of themselves trying to make things go smoothly, and people come in with no second thought and bad mouth them. I personally don't have the time to devote to making ROAR better, I don't have that luxary. I will also not sit here and shout bitter complaints out for all to hear. At minimum, contact your Regional Director and discuss the issue with him/her. You will find out that there is a whole other side of the story.

Come on people, let's all HELP make ROAR better, not beat the people that are TRYING.
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Old 01-04-2005, 09:00 PM   #378
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timmay.. ROAR is a JOKE. Flame away.

Were any of you guys around 4 years ago? when ROAR (yes, that ROAR) put up a rule for 5 degree stock motor? To slow speeds down, and have it be the 'sportsman' class? What ever happened to that idea? oh, yea, Trinity actually made a motor for it, and ROAR decided to kill it, since it was Ernie's motor.. nice!

How about reviving something like that idea to replace the current stock class. Which everyone agrees, has gotten almost 'too' fast, and stock is suppose to be the beginner class. I'm sure Ernie has warehouse full of these things sitting somewhere collecting dust.

As for 4/5/6 cells, and doing stock 6 cell, mod 4 cells, ect, IMHO, not the best idea, right now if I want to run 19T or mod from stock, I just swap motors. Say someone new comes into the hobby with RTR and stick pack you're SOL (as someone mentioned eariler), not a good way to 'promote' racing. Even with current racers, how many packs do I have to buy and lug around if I can't race the same car in 2 classes with out 2 different battery packs?
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Old 01-04-2005, 09:48 PM   #379
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speedxl - Yep, GP did and there are even better batteries on the horizon. We (the mfg's and the racers) can not control Sanyo, GP, Panasonic, etc. so we will have to adapt to whatever they make... Motor limits - means everyone pushes the limits on timing, brushes and set-ups to get the most out of them. Once again, what's less expensive?? Re-tooling all the motors in the industry to have a "different power band" or unsoldering 1-2 cells off of a battery pack?? Taking 1-2 cells off sounds a lot cheaper than buying all new motors. Do you know to tool a motor from scratch it's between $50,000-$125,000??? Cheap, right??...... You sounds like you have money to burn (from your own comment) but most, especially the younger kids out there don't have it to even start in the hobby or continue on in it. The new racers are the future of r/c, not all of us "hardcore" dinosaurs that have been around for 10+ years.....

Now, if a kid shows up with an RTR and a 6-cell pack and the rules were to change to 4-cell - I would like to think EVERYONE at the track would offer to help him out to take the cells off..... There is no such thing as "SOL", if there is then shame on everyone at the track and I think you then understand the reason why the hobby isn't growing.....

kufman - True, but it's a lot harder to fry a motor running on 4.8v vs. 7.2v..... About 34% harder :-) .... Most chargers and ESC's are made to accept hotter motors and charge 4 cells. Still, the cheapest sport speed controls will support at least 16t motors - 4 or 6 cell.... The beginnger chargers we sell at our hobby shop with the RTR kits will charge 4-cells....

From what I know about ROAR - the members vote in a few guys to the respective positions and from there, they assign their own boards and commities and that's that. In all reality, the members really don't have a say unless they scream and yell at their ROAR rep to make something happen. Check the by-laws.... When it comes down to it though, these guys are volunteers so you really can't blame them as they still are trying to do normal jobs, enjoy their hobby and then help with the sanctioning body.... This is where the mfg's need to step up and support a sanctioning body with both input and financial aid. It should be made up of 3 groups - the officials like it currently is as well as a mfg's and racer reps. This way, the sanctioning body can hear from all sides and decide what is best for the organization and future.....

Just my .02..... I could be wrong....
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:02 PM   #380
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hey guys

been reading the post try to understand what everyone is saying

4 cells why not give it a try

but i will make a bad analogy that is very true

what RC Racing needs is a little bit of TV coverage
can we get on some channel (ESPN) when that channel first started it aired Irish Curling

anyway, i live in NJ not to far from AC (atlantic city) and i go at least once a month and i played Texas Hold'em before it was aired and became popular on TV

you could walk into any poker room and get a seat

Now since it has TV coverage you can't get a seat in a poker room without a wait

the wait was over two hrs last wednesday at 5pm, that is crazy and it pisses all the people off that played before it was on TV

it is so popular now the casinos are building new and adding on to the old rooms to accomadate all the people

i think if we could get the BIG US races on TV the sport/industry would boom

indoor champs,snowbirds, ROAR NATS On and Off-raod

that would be awesome

to be con't
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Old 01-04-2005, 10:07 PM   #381
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could we get like the 3 big US based co. AE/Trinity/losi to pay for one hour of coverage of the mains of a major event

so highlights of qualifying, people wrenching in the pits

it would be awesome

and i garentee (SP) the RC indusrty would boom

think about how many people race RC in the country and everyone would watch = good ratings

think about it we die for still pics on this board!!!

just a pipedream i know

BUT A GOODONE!!!

later,
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:01 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally posted by L.Fairtrace
The major problem with this hobby/sport is there is no one good Governerning body. To me, aside from the nats Roar is a joke and thats pretty much the consensus of all the racers I talk to.
And you never will have one I'm afraid. We're all imperfect people. ROAR, and all the other organizations are just like any other regulating agency around the world; too many good ideas and not enough time to listen to nor implement them all. Plus even if they could, would everyone 'NOT' complain? I seriously doubt it The majority of rules implemented are only pleasing to the majority of people that are willing to follow them... ie- THE UN, lol

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Old 01-05-2005, 08:11 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally posted by razzo
timmay.. ROAR is a JOKE. Flame away.

Were any of you guys around 4 years ago? when ROAR (yes, that ROAR) put up a rule for 5 degree stock motor? To slow speeds down, and have it be the 'sportsman' class? What ever happened to that idea? oh, yea, Trinity actually made a motor for it, and ROAR decided to kill it, since it was Ernie's motor.. nice!


ROAR is a joke? Hmm then why does Kyosho, Losi, Associated, Mugen, Corally, Yokomo, CRC, CEFX, Tamiya (and on and on) design their vehicles with dimensions that conform to specifications set forth by ROAR?

Actually, nobody wanted to race with 5 degree motors. How many did Trinity sell? How many tracks and "big" race events offered a 5-degree class? If ROAR is such a joke, why would Trinity need their 5-degree rules to make a successful class?

It can't be too much of a joke can it?
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Old 01-05-2005, 08:12 AM   #384
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Josh, I don't agree about the kid with the RTR and helping his knock his 6 cell pack down to 4 cells.... I gave my son 2 battery packs... These are the same packs he uses in his Stadium Truck and his E Maxx... Taking 2 cells off those packs would render them useless in his E Maxx....

How about we open the motor wars up and give the manufacturers a year to come up with a new more efficient motor design? A brushed motor for the 21st century....

Raise the minimum weight on TC's... The manufacturers now have the room to make more durable parts.... I love my Yok SD, but one tap and the C hubs snap right off.... I can take out my old RC10T and drive it into a brick wall and it'll keep going....
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Old 01-05-2005, 08:45 AM   #385
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Timmay - I am a ROAR member, Schumacher is a ROAR affiliate, I am (was) on the electric on road board. I say was because I have had no contact from ROAR since January, 2004.

ROAR caused some serious problems for the IFMAR Worlds and then didn't have the nerve to send a representative to the event. Thats is the first time in the history of ROAR that they have not sent anyone to a US IFMAR event.

They have just accepted one manufacturers suggestion for Brushless motor rules without researching the technology. All ROAR legal Brushless motors will be 3 pole (inefficient, more poles are better), slotted, with rigidly fixed parameters. This guarantees that the rule will need to be completely revised in a year to two and we all will have to buy new motors .

19T? I spoke with a motor manufacturer on Monday about availability of a ROAR legal 19T. They told me they had repeatedly left messages and sent emails to ROAR with no response. Until they get answers they can't commit to tooling up a new motor.

We still follow ROAR rules because we need a guide for what to run. At this point that is all ROAR is good for.
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Old 01-05-2005, 08:47 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris08527
could we get like the 3 big US based co. AE/Trinity/losi to pay for one hour of coverage of the mains of a major event

so highlights of qualifying, people wrenching in the pits

it would be awesome

and i garentee (SP) the RC indusrty would boom

think about how many people race RC in the country and everyone would watch = good ratings

think about it we die for still pics on this board!!!

just a pipedream i know

BUT A GOODONE!!!

later,
Chris08527
www.jacksonrcracing.com

Well concideringjust a 30 second slot during the superbowl that airs once.... and only once, and never airs agian costs 3-5 million........

I believe a 2 hour pay-per-view even costs in the area of 10-15 million to produce..... and do you think a channel like ESPN would help fork the bill to do RC event coverage which wouldn't even guarantee any ratings.
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:12 AM   #387
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Actually Rick it can be. I think that the average roar member feels as if they get nothing out of it. They can run the Roar nats....whoopdido. Id rather run cleveland or snowbirds or CRCRC. The only positive that I can see from Roar is that they have given us a set of rules. Whether we like them or not it is something for us to measure ourselves with. As far as putting RC on TV, Are you guys insane? I think that once the general public watched and saw how unorginazed and how much money it costs to race they would be turned off. If we went on tv now it would be a failure. If there was a structured organization that was not a NON PROFIT orginization, but instead one that had full time employees whos job it was to build up the hobby....now your on to something. Think about it.... no one wants to watch two guys racing down the dirt road but millions watch NASCAR.
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Old 01-05-2005, 09:26 AM   #388
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On the ROAR point... the smallest segment of the racing (oval) community realized how ROAR had all but abandoned them, so they formed their own sanctioning body, rules and ran with it... then they designed their own 19T rules and the manufacturers built motors for their racing. Keep in mind that the there are far less oval racers than on-road racers even when you add in all forms of oval racing...(dirt, asphalt, carpet), the funny thing is Roar is now recognizing the sanctioning body and their 19T motor is legalized for ROAR oval racing.......

Look at Tamiya they came up with their own racing events, which are held free of charge. They have spec classes, stock and modified classes.... and the spec classes have the largest turn out... and all of their events are sucessful, 2 years ago I went to a local one and their where 170ish racers who turned out, and that's not counting the guys who ran 2-3 classes!!! and at a facility which is really only equipted to handle 100-120 racers max.

The funny thing is the Tamiya classes aren't just held once a year at these places they are ran regularly and people love them....

Is this what will need to be done?? Should we form our own sanctioning body and rules to better the state of on-road RC racing? who knows, maybe Roar should revise their rule book and just support one form of racing?? Or maybe there needs to be 4-5 smaller snctioning bodies that then Roar uses as their blueprint for the rule book.... only time will tell.....Maybe roar could be more effective if we delt with the rules and they delt with all the other stuff we don't think about??? like events, coverage, insurances, ect.....
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:14 AM   #389
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Everyone send me $30 and I'll form a new sanctioning body, once I've reached around 100 grand.

I've been a big ROAR basher my entire time in the hobby. ROAR paid little to no attention to the on-road market untill the advent of the TC, so I took issue with that and let my opinions be known.

That being said, I've always appreciated the fact that some individuals are willing to sacrifice their time & energy to deal with the issues pertaining to the stupid little cars that we race, and all the crap we give them for doing so.

I try to bash the organization less, and stick to bashing the decisions they make.

My problem is that we vote officials into office and that's pretty much where our say in matters ends. It really doesn't matter because virtually noone votes anyway.
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:24 AM   #390
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Wow, so much for a productive discussion about bringing back / starting 4 cell.

There are many problems with ROAR. Many are being worked on Many are not ROAR could benefit from more follow through from within ROAR also could benefit from more hands on deck

It is easy to say ROAR sucks and start bashing. Heck I say the same thing once in a while.

It is harder to day ROAR sucks and figure out how to make it better.
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