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Old 12-31-2004, 08:47 AM   #286
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I'm not doing anything to it. I bought a motor...soldered it in, set it down and it went crazy. Did all the voodoo crap that everyone seems to think helps...no good. Back at home, spent 4 hours swapping crap back and forth -- it was the motor.

Had a good friend from here "do it up" and run it on his checker thing...seemed fine. BAM -- into the wall. Took it back to the guy at the counter and he told me tough...and to "Send it to Trinity" (Translation: "Pound sand in your ass.)".

It had a grand total of about 5 (glitching) laps on it. It hit the (brick) wall so hard...it's not even funny...and it happened a few times.

As an experienced 1:1 scale racer, and considering all the money I've spent to buy decent parts (I'm the "King of last year's good stuff"), I just don't get why R/C guys are so superstitious...they'll sprinkle goat's blood on a car to keep it from glitching, but they won't use a motor that for the most part (unless it's damaged) is incapable of causing a glitch...and costs less.

If 1:1 scale cars "kept up" with r/c technology, we'd still be using magnetos and every car would have a flathead motor. Ther's better (more reliable, more fun, cheaper, higher quality) stuff out there...and we should be allowed to use it.
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Old 12-31-2004, 08:48 AM   #287
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Default Re: Re: Re: it's only 60+ miles when we have two or three tracks closer.

Quote:
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
Earlier in the thread you posted numerious times about the "monster glitch".... I am wondering what you are doing to your equiptment?? I have never had a glitch with the monster, and between myself and my buddy we have had well over a dozen monsters..... For the longerst time he was running an 15+ year old futaba AM radio..... neither of us have the newest equiptment, my Mars radio is among the newest of my stuff and it's 4 years old.... not to mention I run an X-Ray with teh C/F chassis and he has 2 XXX-S G+'s.... you can't get you motor much closer to glitch causing materials than that....LOL
It's not just the monster's, but any epic endbell. I don't know why, but their caps sometimes stop working. Their are fine new though. I have had two motors so far out of three epics that have had this problem.

Turbo Joe- There is no need to send it back to Trinity, just take off the current caps, and solder one new ones like they did in the old days.
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Old 12-31-2004, 09:21 AM   #288
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No...they should have exchanged it for a good one. Period. It was bad from the start, right out of the package.

How come I never seem to see a glitch towards the inside wall?

Thanks, though.
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:17 AM   #289
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If you tested 4 cell mod and were only a little faster than 6 cell stock you were geared way wrong. You should only be a little slower than open mod. You should be a little faster than 19T 6 cell. Of course this is with real mods like 7 and 8 turns not 10 and 12 turns...lol!
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Old 12-31-2004, 01:29 PM   #290
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Adrian- This reads like an oval thread...and what I mean by that is, pretty soon, the TC class at the ROAR On Road Nats will look like the Oval Nats: 4 cell TC 19T, 6 cell TC 19T, 4 cell TC Stock handout tire, 6 cell TC Stock handout tire/spec driveshaft, 4 cell sportsman mod, 6 cell factory mod handout tire/one run chassis, etc.

Everyone makes the A!
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Old 12-31-2004, 01:59 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdrianM
If you tested 4 cell mod and were only a little faster than 6 cell stock you were geared way wrong. You should only be a little slower than open mod. You should be a little faster than 19T 6 cell. Of course this is with real mods like 7 and 8 turns not 10 and 12 turns...lol!
I somehow knew this would be an issue with "something I did incorrectly" lol.

Have you actually tried it on a short carpet track? I think you might be suprised.

Thats why I say that higher speed, large tracks will be more like 6 cell mod... you don't rely so much on the bottom "punch" to pull you from corner to corner. 4 cells, like you said, will not have the acceleration that 6 cells do.

Like I said in my lengthy feedback post... I ended up going up 8 teeth from 6 cell. I was running about 36 laps in 5 minutes. Currently our stock Track record is a quick 34 and our Mod is a slow 39.

Here is the post with the info I wrote the night I tried it.
Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
Well... I braved the carpet tonight with an 8x2 Orion V2 and 4 cell Fusion 1.18 packs in my Xray. Mixed to technical ozite carpet track with approximately 70' backstraight.

I now completely oppose switching from 6 cell to 4 cell across the board. But I COMPLETELY support replacing stock racing with 4 cell mod (with a motor limit perhaps 8 or 10 turn).

I started 4 teeth higher than my 6 cell gearing and the car was similar to a stock car.. actually a tick slower through technical sections. I didn't change any setup until my gearing was right... and just like Adrian suggested I kept going up until my lap times peaked. I ended up going up 8 teeth. Wow.

The car handled GREAT from the start, but I did make a few changes to try to free up the car a bit. When things really leveled off I was faster than the fastest stock racers, but slower than 6 cell Mod. At our track Mod runs in the 38-39 lap range in 5 minutes while stock is 34. With my 4 cell Mod I was in the 35-36 range.

The kicker was that the motor temp was very cool, as were the batteries, after 5 minutes and runtime was not even close to being an issue.

The lighter car was actually easier to drive than a 6 cell stock car. The throttle response was smoother and the top speed was faster than stock. The car was much easier to correct when entering a corner too hot, and the smooth acceleration made corner off VERY controllable.

On a high speed large track I'm sure the 4 cell mod would be more comparable to 6 cell mod than stock. After my initial runs though I'm still not sold that it will be AS fast. I am however sold on the idea that for short technical tracks the 4 cell mod is a great alternative to Stock. Given that many of the guys at my track are tired of having to have all of their motors tuned by the local motor man (who by the way is one of the 2 fastest stock racers at the track) I might try to pitch the idea of having 4 cell and 6 cell TC next winter as opposed to stock and mod.

When I tossed the idea out to local racers, none believed that the 4 cell could approach the speed and appeal of 6 cell mod though they did enjoy watching my car for sure. More than a few however did immediately recognize some positives such as decreased battery expense (in one guys words... "I'll have plenty of batteries that way") and also eliminating the whole stock motor tuning issue we have now. A couple even talked about lighter cars not breaking as much and decreased tire wear ( I didn't notice less tire wear tonight though... still lost just over 1 mm which is normal).

The car was fun for sure though. Its still not the adrenaline rush of 6 cell mod, but 4 cell could definitely find its niche in our class structure. I'm anxious to hear others input after they've tried it.
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Old 12-31-2004, 02:52 PM   #292
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if an average GOOD pack costs between $75-90 dollars then you are saving between $27-32 per pack for 4 cell racing. However, your asking guys to switch from stock ($25-30 per motor) to modified ($50-70 per motor)
Is the maitenance of a Mod the same as a stock? If not, Although you initially see savings in the beginning, over the long haul you end up spending the same.
Which then leaves weight & Handling as being the only benefit to switching to 4 cell. I really dont see tire wear as an issue .
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Old 12-31-2004, 03:01 PM   #293
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JKA-
I would be considered daring if I said, from the results of your actual test, it seems to me that 4-cell mod is a success? Especially if those results were consistent. Sooner than later 27t is gonna be replace by 19t or possibly 4-cell mod as the new 'stock' class anyway...

- jaybee
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Old 12-31-2004, 03:46 PM   #294
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As an old oval racer this thread reminds me of the 4 cell versus 6 cell debate that went on in the oval world a few years ago. Now that is all done and the 4 cell classes are in and 6 cell is out.

4 cell would be cheaper not only because of batteries, tire wear will be a little better, and motors will last a lot longer. Just look at 4 cell 1/12th scale, the brushes look like new after a couple of runs. Sedans would not be that easy on brushes but less voltage has to help. Plus the lighter weight has to be better for breakage.

Seems to me we could have a very nice begineer class with stock, 19t would be about the same speed as stock is today and mod would be something more guys could run because the cars would be a little slower so then more guys would have the ability to drive the cars. You have to admit that mod today is so fast that very few mortals have the ability to drive these rockets.

As far as everybody being in the A main, nope, not if six cell went away!

I would switch to 4 cell in a heartbeat!
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:21 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally posted by J.Filipow
6 cell TC Stock handout tire/spec driveshaft....handout tire/one run chassis............

Everyone makes the A!
I like the idea of spec driveshafts.

What about Antenna Tubes?
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Old 12-31-2004, 07:01 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally posted by JayBee
JKA-
I would be considered daring if I said, from the results of your actual test, it seems to me that 4-cell mod is a success? Especially if those results were consistent. Sooner than later 27t is gonna be replace by 19t or possibly 4-cell mod as the new 'stock' class anyway...- jaybee
Thats somewhat the way I felt. I'm afraid there is going to be a big discrepancy from track to track though with 4 cell mod. The car was very fast on the high speed portions and I feel that a high speed track may see VERY comparable lap times between 4 and 6 cell mod. The short tight tracks however will see a bigger difference as the punch is lost. Of course one thing I've failed to consider is that, as opposed to the 8 turn motor I tested with, a 5 or 6 turn may bring that needed acceleration back and Adrian may in fact be completely right. Then the question about decreased motor maintainence becomes an issue again, but you never know.

I was, still am a bit, skeptical about 4 cell. Honestly it was a blast though. And I realized MANY (though not all) of the things Adrian and other supporters have claimed to be true are indeed pretty much dead on.

Cooler motor and batts - yes
better handling (light) car - yes
Very fun - yes
Tire wear - not really a difference so far
less breakage - the car was so easy to drive I didn't hit a wall the whole time so who knows, but it does make sense.
just as fast as 6 cell - I still don't believe this one


The only reason I still support the idea of replacing Stock with a 4 cell mod class is because stock racing has not turned out to be what it was intended to be... less expensive and geared toward beginners. I don't buy the Mod motors costing more debate simply because you have just as much residual expense with stock maintainence, yet you also have added equipment expense (IE Dynos) that are necessary to be competitive even on the local scenes now.

I would probably use the loose analogy to NASCAR. The Bush cars have a little less power and the cars are lighter and thus easier to drive than the next progression which is the Cup cars with plenty o' power and heavier rides. Its a loose analogy though... I know. lol We don't need to drum up a detailed debate over the engine differences between the full scale racers! lol

Maybe I'm optimistic, but even with the 4 cell mod cars being faster than 6 cell stock I feel even beginners would not have a problem with 4 cell mod because the dang car was SO EASY TO DRIVE. It was amazing to me, honestly.

I've not really been a huge fan of 19T racing, but the more I think about it perhaps it would indeed be a nice stock class. I felt the motors wouldn't have enough power but generally speaking they tend to be very 'torque'y motors which may prove to somewhat make up (on the track at least) for the lost voltage of 4 cell compared to 6. Maybe I should at least try it too!
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Old 12-31-2004, 10:10 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
"Send it to Trinity" (Translation: "Pound sand in your ass.)"
!

Dude...So True...
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:44 PM   #298
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it 4 cell mod is slower than 6 cell stock something is wrong
you were probably running a motor built for 6 cell with a gear ratio for 6 cell it's all diferent in 4 cell
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Old 01-01-2005, 12:53 AM   #299
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Great report JKA!!!
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:33 PM   #300
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If using 4 cells gives you almost the same speed as 6 cells, 4.8 volts instead of 7.2volts.
Then why are we paying fortune for cells that have 0.05 volts more per cell?
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