R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #1
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default "Misfit" T-plate pan cars

I call it "misfit" because these cars have been shunned for their lack of being able to run 1s Lipo. These cars were originally designed for saddle pack batteries which in the NiCd / NiMh world was not a problem. Enter Lipo and that became a problem. A company called Speedzone did come out with a saddle pack 1s lipo but they discontinued it for reason of lack of interest.

Lack of interest? I've seen many pan car threads where someone or a few ask about running their old RC12L / RC10L, etc T-plate pan car. The answer they got, "sorry you got to get a new car and a new 1s pack and a new 1s compatible Esc or a booster or a rx pack, etc, etc...." What happens after that? The guy either throws it back in the closet or tries to pass it off in FS forum or on Ebay to the next unsuspecting newbie who will pick it up and ask the same question again.

The truth is, we all know someone or even ourselves that have an old T-plate car sitting in the closet. If not that, we've seen them for sale cheap because they're worthless in the 1s pan world. Why can't there be a class to accomodate these people if not adjust the rules to accomodate them?

To run an old T-plate car is easy and cheap. All it needs is a 4cell NiMh saddle pack and any 1/10th esc. No booster, no rx pack! Many current budget brushless systems allow for 4cell / 4.8v operation. Add radio, tires and a body and you're done.

However, most tracks have rules that restrict pan to only 1s lipo. Why? Is it because of the voltage difference? So a person with an old T-plate 4cell car will out run someone with the latest CRC or 12R5.1 with a 1s setup? C'mon, these old cars are already handicapped by their old design in its ability to handle vs the newer link cars. Why are we turning our backs to these things?

I say this because if the T-plate cars can be accomodated, many who once were into pan cars back in the day may want to come out again. Maybe even a newbie can pick up a used T-plate car cheap and buy-in to running pan car for $300 or less radio included. As some of you current pan car guys already said that this is a great time for pan car because it is simple and cheap fun. However, it can be even cheaper and simpler if we can allow the T-plate guys to join in.

Some of you hardcore pan guys may flame me for this so I'll put my flame suit on.
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #2
Tech Addict
 
academygaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 718
Default

You can't get good NiMH cells that'll last 8 minutes at a decent pace anymore. Not in the UK at least.
__________________
Quote, Leodis, 2007: ''I've been shopping online for 9 years and the only charge I've ever had to dispute with my credit card company was from TiR. Congratulations TiR. Even porn sites are more ethical than your company!''

RC cars - I haz sum.
academygaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:14 AM   #3
Tech Regular
 
Conrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 473
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Or if you have a Corally SP12M Euro then you have a sunken t-bar so lipo/4 cell doesn't become a problem at all
__________________
Swith Racing [www.swithracing.co.uk]
Conrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by academygaz View Post
You can't get good NiMH cells that'll last 8 minutes at a decent pace anymore. Not in the UK at least.
I don't see how. Old schoolers did it back in the day with 1200s and 1300s on brushed motors. Shouldn't it be easier with 3700s on a more efficient BL system?
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 12:21 PM   #5
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,542
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
I don't see how. Old schoolers did it back in the day with 1200s and 1300s on brushed motors. Shouldn't it be easier with 3700s on a more efficient BL system?
Hey Dude

Sean at TQ had a few racers running 4c in the blinky class.
If that's what you want to do, then bust it out.
You can even run a 27t

I think after a while many that were racing the old 4c chassis' have upgraded.
But it's not a bad way to get back in the game.

I know of one guy that still runs an L3/4 (Dread Pirate on RcTech)
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 12:31 PM   #6
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Hey Dude

Sean at TQ had a few racers running 4c in the blinky class.
If that's what you want to do, then bust it out.
You can even run a 27t

I think after a while many that were racing the old 4c chassis' have upgraded.
But it's not a bad way to get back in the game.

I know of one guy that still runs an L3/4 (Dread Pirate on RcTech)
4 cell blinky = 4 cell with GTB or compatible = cheap, cheap, cheap fun

Not really talking about myself. I already went the expense of 1s electronics and the three bolt axle. Just need to get out to TQ. Just saying for all the others out there who have the T-plate car in the closet and want to come out.
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 12:48 PM   #7
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: anywhere I can race 2wd dirt,and 1/12 onroad in MI.
Posts: 3,405
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/pro...e-5000-SC.aspx

I had good luck with these sub c cells a couple years back while we were mid change to the 1s format.very stable. 4 packs lasted me a whole carpet season club racing 17.5 class with NO dead cells the whole season.Lasted 8 min. no problem with a moderately boosted 17.5 set-up.
__________________
*Vandal 4wd Late model*XXX-T sprinter*Micro scale specialties 1/24 'rock monster' crawler*MSS Micro-Rail*MSS Micro-Funny*MSS Micro-Outlaw*
2wdMod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 01:01 PM   #8
Tech Fanatic
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 862
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Promatch still has matched 4600 4cell packs for around $25..
Serzoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 01:19 PM   #9
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,588
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default



This ^^ seems to be the new thing, so why not just do this......?

__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 01:26 PM   #10
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stockport, UK
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by academygaz View Post
You can't get good NiMH cells that'll last 8 minutes at a decent pace anymore. Not in the UK at least.
Still plenty of good cells about, and yes in the UK as well.

Just because the big companies aren't making what were the most fashionable cells doesn't mean there aren't decent cells. For example in the UK, DMS Racing still have plenty of old decent high spec packs at cheap prices, although some junk as well.
Anywhere else will still stock what are now classed as 'sport' packs that have up to 6000mah capacity, just because racers use lipos doesn't mean the rest of the world uses them and I would probably be right in assuming lipos are used by the minority of r/c drivers when you include all the bashers around. You just have to think a bit about what you are buying.

As said above we managed to last 8 minutes with 1200mah cells in the old days, and even now old racers do miss having to try and nurse a modified 1/12th to make sure you last 8 minutes instead of the overpowered missiles that have to be driven flat out all race we have today.

If you are really worried about having that tiny extra edge that drove idiots to keep on buying the junk that were the old 'race spec' nimhs that helped kill them off, then you shouldn't be looking at what YR4Dude is proposing.

It's not a suggestion of a class to compete against 1S cars, it's just a suggestion to let old racers get going again as a lot of clubs will only allow 1S lipo to run. The only advantage old 4 cell cars can have is in speed down the straight, the new cars corner faster, accelerate faster, handle more power and are lighter. If people are worried about the 4 cell cars being competitive then more weight could be added to slow them down, which would make them more docile and easier to drive for beginners as a side effect. Do you think those digging out a 10 year old chassis to have a go again are worried about fractions of a second on their lap time?

An interesting aside, here in the UK the BRCA still allow any batteries even at national level as long as the nominal voltage is 3.7v or less, so you can run 3 cell nimh if you want to.
terry.sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 01:54 PM   #11
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Garner, NC
Posts: 402
Default

The problem isn't being able to finish the 8 minute race, the problem is being able to keep at a racing pace for the entire 8 minute race. I've ran 1/12th scale off and on for 10 years now and have seen a lot of changes in the cars and the electronics that we are using. When I started we were using 3000 nimh batteries and 27T brushed motors. The old motors weren't as efficient, and back in the day you had to drive with a lot more throttle control to finish the race. Today with the new motor and battery technology we can drive flat out for the entire 8 minutes.

We are now running 6500mah lipo batteries, because of the higher capacity of the new battery with its lower weight the battery is able to stay at a higher voltage longer, the car has less weight to move but has less voltage.

Personally I have tried my old BMI with a lipo/brushless setup and a nimh/brushed setup. I was able to get similar lap times with the two different setups but the brushed car fell off after 5 or 6 minutes at that pace. To keep the brushed car consistent for the entire 8 minutes the lap times suffered.
avink007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 02:40 PM   #12
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Robk - Its been tried before by some and they told me it didn't work out too well. However, there's plenty of room for that setup on a 1/10 pan, so there's plenty of hope for all those RC10Ls out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
It's not a suggestion of a class to compete against 1S cars, it's just a suggestion to let old racers get going again as a lot of clubs will only allow 1S lipo to run.
Thanks for seeing my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avink007 View Post
Personally I have tried my old BMI with a lipo/brushless setup and a nimh/brushed setup. I was able to get similar lap times with the two different setups but the brushed car fell off after 5 or 6 minutes at that pace. To keep the brushed car consistent for the entire 8 minutes the lap times suffered.
Did you try the NiMh with a brushless setup to see how it compared to the lipo/ brushless setup?
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 04:24 PM   #13
Tech Elite
 
chris moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Phx AZ
Posts: 3,780
Trader Rating: 88 (99%+)
Default

There is an even better solution, sub-c life cells
http://rcbuy.vstore.ca/product_info..../cName/lifepo4
I have these in my old Hyperdrive 1/12th, thay have all the advantages of lipo(lightweight) and nimh(no lipo fires) but very few downsides. The biggest issue is runtime. I can make a full 8min with an old 4cell GTB and 17.5 , BUT its very very close. I've only gone 8:30 before thay dump, so like the old days you cannot run a bunch of warm-up laps if you want to make time.

Here is a pic of them installed in the car

I still use them at our recently newly opened outdoor facility running against 1s 13.5 boosted. I'm slower on the straight but even everywhere else; certainly an option but not for everyone, but then the class you propose is'nt for everyone either.
__________________
Sponsered by:

CMDezigns Paint Works
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CM-Dezigns/259989190822177?ref=hl

Last edited by chris moore; 12-28-2011 at 04:44 PM.
chris moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 04:48 PM   #14
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

That's quite interesting. However, I don't get how a 1000mah LiFe is able to last 8min. How does that work?
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 04:52 PM   #15
Tech Fanatic
 
bakaguyjean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atsugi Japan
Posts: 823
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
I call it "misfit" because these cars have been shunned for their lack of being able to run 1s Lipo. These cars were originally designed for saddle pack batteries which in the NiCd / NiMh world was not a problem. Enter Lipo and that became a problem. A company called Speedzone did come out with a saddle pack 1s lipo but they discontinued it for reason of lack of interest.

Lack of interest? I've seen many pan car threads where someone or a few ask about running their old RC12L / RC10L, etc T-plate pan car. The answer they got, "sorry you got to get a new car and a new 1s pack and a new 1s compatible Esc or a booster or a rx pack, etc, etc...." What happens after that? The guy either throws it back in the closet or tries to pass it off in FS forum or on Ebay to the next unsuspecting newbie who will pick it up and ask the same question again.

The truth is, we all know someone or even ourselves that have an old T-plate car sitting in the closet. If not that, we've seen them for sale cheap because they're worthless in the 1s pan world. Why can't there be a class to accomodate these people if not adjust the rules to accomodate them?

To run an old T-plate car is easy and cheap. All it needs is a 4cell NiMh saddle pack and any 1/10th esc. No booster, no rx pack! Many current budget brushless systems allow for 4cell / 4.8v operation. Add radio, tires and a body and you're done.

However, most tracks have rules that restrict pan to only 1s lipo. Why? Is it because of the voltage difference? So a person with an old T-plate 4cell car will out run someone with the latest CRC or 12R5.1 with a 1s setup? C'mon, these old cars are already handicapped by their old design in its ability to handle vs the newer link cars. Why are we turning our backs to these things?

I say this because if the T-plate cars can be accomodated, many who once were into pan cars back in the day may want to come out again. Maybe even a newbie can pick up a used T-plate car cheap and buy-in to running pan car for $300 or less radio included. As some of you current pan car guys already said that this is a great time for pan car because it is simple and cheap fun. However, it can be even cheaper and simpler if we can allow the T-plate guys to join in.

Some of you hardcore pan guys may flame me for this so I'll put my flame suit on.
Just run a 1c on one side of the t bar,its not rocket sience.
bakaguyjean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:31 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net