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Old 12-21-2004, 04:53 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
I think a lot of people are missing the point.

With our current racing formats (ie. 5 minute heats etc) the extra capacity batteries may not be helpful unless you of course you intended to over gear thus killing motors.

Properly geared Brushed motors can run extended time without overheating.

The point is... why are we still running 5 minute races???
The racing formats MUST develop along with technology.
The reality is, batts are matched for mod racing. Most RC gear is made with mod in mind. When higher capacity cells come out, we will be running our 8t's for club meets, and be racing with 6-7t as a norm. The extra runtime will be eaten by the motors thirst for current.. and this includes stockers. Get out an older motor like a p2k. stick it on a motor checker and see what current it pulls. Now try the same thing with a monster....

More capacity/voltage (we will see about voltage) in new cells will just make the cars faster on the track.
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:02 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Models
Would be a great idea if next seasons races will be 8 mins duration... X'tahseb Joe !!
From my own personal point of view as a racer I would say YES, but I know that there are quite a few members who are already worried about the thought of having to dish out on new cells again next year, so as club president I would say NO.

I'm sure 8 minute mod races would be great, and I would love to see it that way, but we have to look at other people and their budgets too, and respect that.

At the end of the day, it will have to be an AGM decision.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:23 AM   #63
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The current cels are already 3700..... Just take numbers: 445x30A/3.6 makes already a 3700 mAh!

Now, question, do we need this improvement? The motors will hold, as the cells used this year were already 3800+, so not worries there. But, who is at the moment able to put that extra power down and really go faster in laptimes.....

For what I personally see the biggest worry is the differences between top and 'average' drivers: It is getting bigger and bigger and bigger.... and people get demotivated. I see an increase of runtime as a big mistake, the recent Japanese Championship 8 minutes was the worst example ever: One lap difference already in the A final....

How about this: 5 cells iso 6......

- Cheaper
- Motors make less rpm and last longer
- All current chargers and speedo's still work fine
- Better balanced car due to less weight
- Expensive tricks to make the car more light no more needed
- Still 5 minutes of course

Just a personal thought.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:34 AM   #64
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I think you have a point about the 5 cell racing. That could be the norm soon. I think the only reason why we are running 6 cells is the shear love of speed. I would consider trying a new 5 cell class. I will see what my club says.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:05 AM   #65
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:07 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonfire
The reality is, batts are matched for mod racing. Most RC gear is made with mod in mind. When higher capacity cells come out, we will be running our 8t's for club meets, and be racing with 6-7t as a norm.
We are already doing this. I run an 8 turn on a short, tight, high traction carpet track with foam tires... a high load situation to say the least. We still make run time... and even deadshort our batteries to gain extra voltage and decreased IR at the expense of about 15 -20 seconds runtime.

There is no reason Mod racing could not be 8 minutes with 3700 or 4000 mah batteries.

Quote:
Originally posted by Oscar Jansen
I see an increase of runtime as a big mistake, the recent Japanese Championship 8 minutes was the worst example ever: One lap difference already in the A final....
I somewhat understand your point here... but shouldn't the best drivers stand out though? Especially on a national level. Honestly even at 5 minutes the local scenes will have these kinds of discrepancies more often than one might imagine.

It all boils down to track time. So many people have switched to Nitro racing because of longer races and more track time. The large discrepancies in GP race results have not hindered interest. I feel that EP should follow suit.... longer races.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:10 AM   #67
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I'm not a fan of 5 cells...I like the speed. Faster is good. I agree some of the newer racers have time getting up to speed.

At our local track (small, high-bite carpet) the spread from TQ to BQ is usually about 3 laps or about 24s. The fast guys are running 8.4s laps. I've worked my butt off to get into the low 9's and high 8's but it's been a lot of work. And a lot of fun.

Most attempts to level the playing field have flopped miserably. Spec classes fizzle quickly. People want speed and want racing. Some are going to get frustrated when they don't come out their first weekend and make the A. I don't think they should. Fast guys are fast because they practice.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:11 AM   #68
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Guys please understand that it has been 2 full years since a battery change has occured.
Sanyo already has 3600's but their performance isnt up to par and due to Trinity(EVIL ERNIE) they are quite pricey.
Anyone on this board with less than 2 yrs experience should consider batteries of today a BLESSING compared to the older days.
We paid more for Fast 1700 and 2000 nicads than you do for the KILLER pack of GP3300s.
You will ONLY need these packs in Mod Sedan and 1/12th scale.
Offroad will not NEED such packs,stock and 19 turn sedan will not require these packs either.
If GP discountinues the 3300 then I could see guys moving up but unless you race MOD sedan or 19T-Mod 1/12th scale there would be NO REASON at all to replace cells you have purchased in the last year unless worn out.
Runtime isnt even being spoke about for 2005 but you might see a change in the future to 6 in offroad and stock sedan.
That wouldnt be an issue at all.
When OTHER countries run longer races they also gear alot more conservitive than we do here in the states so they can make runtime.Thats something less than 10% of the racing population of america would have a clue of doing.
Oval guys know but not many others.
I like the 5 cell idea for stock sedan and offroad.
That would really bring in 19 turn.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:46 AM   #69
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Sanyo is expensive because of Sanyo not Trinity.

Mike Reedy had been toying around with the idea of running 4 cell sedans for some time. They have done some testing and with a open mod motor (7-8 turn) geared up as needed the top speed is the same. The big difference is you get less punch out of the corners. Lap times are only 2/10ths slower than 6 cell mod.

Look at what 4 cell did for oval racing. The 4 cells guys are just as fast as the 6 cells guys but the motors last longer and the cars handle better.
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:00 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdrianM
Look at what 4 cell did for oval racing.
The more I think about it the more I can appreciate such Ideas... 4 or 5 cell sedan racing.

But... the car designs in oval racing were not as severely affected by decreasing the number of cells. I'm afraid with TC's some car designs would become completely obsolete... especially with 5 cell.

Of course in the long run expense would go down significantly.
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:03 AM   #71
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I would imagine that with 4 cells the corner speed is actually faster than with 6 cells with the less weight. Would the racing actually be closer due to more overall car control and require more precise driving? Costs would definitely be reduced in terms of battery prices as well as less wear and tear on the car's drivetrain, tires and motors. I hope this is pursued further!! 4 cell 1/12 is an absolute thrill and easy on equipment. Maybe 4 cells is the way of the future as well as higher run time batteries.

Speed is all relative, if everybody is only going 2-3 tenths slower but under control and running bumper to bumper, who cares. Sounds like quite a bit of run to race let alone to watch!
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:22 AM   #72
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I am running the Yokomo Mr4TC Mini 12th scale touring car.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5939794722
this is my second.
It runs four cells and is designed for four cells. I run a D6 9x1 and it is as quick as most 6 cell TC's. I think it is just that most people don't want to buy another TC just for a cell change. I run unmatched Intellect 3600 cells and I get 8-9min right now and 5.5-6.6 with matched Gp 3300 cells. Either work but I didn't want to pay top$ for matched 4 cell packs.
If everyone tried one of the 12th scale TC's I think everyone would want one.
I got a group of guys here who tried driving mine and now have started a MINI class and it has become the most fun to watch class out there.
Just my thoughts
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:28 AM   #73
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Anyone awared the new GP3700 is longer than current GP3300 cells ??
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:29 AM   #74
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DUH
I did not realize that. Guess someone for got to mention that.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oscar Jansen
The current cels are already 3700..... Just take numbers: 445x30A/3.6 makes already a 3700 mAh!
Can I see those 445 sec of runtime batteries? Where can I buy them
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