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Old 12-18-2011, 09:55 AM   #31
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No i don't. The first line and the video are two seperate things. The first line was just a question why stock died off as well. It was not my intention to make a comparisson between stock and modified by showing that movie. The video was to show how fast modified was back then. Compared to modified today it was quite slow and not way too fast. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

I agree with you, if they run modified on a small track like you are saying then yeah it is too fast for the size of track and they should have gone to either a bigger track or reduce the motor.

I don't see modified touringcars on small tracks either so it was maybe a real bad idea to have a modified pro10 championship on that track in the first place.

It is like saying modified touringcars are always too fast everywhere. Yes they are too fast on those tracks you mention but on medium to big tracks it seems quite ok.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:00 AM   #32
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Theses cars are awesome and not as mechanically complicated as touring cars.



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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #33
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Anyone who thinks a mod touring car is as fast as a pro10 is nuts. When brushed was near its end, we had a pro10 we had built for 2004 Onroad Nats in portland, as they were trying to revive the class using 4 cell 19t...we got bored one day and put six cells in it and a 7t v2. My indoor onroad carpet track was pretty big, 100+ foot straight, 60 feet wide.....laps were mid 10s with a mod touring car. Track record was Travis Schreven, Multiple time national champ, fully sponsored Xray driver....Peter Robinson was right behind him. They each ran the car, both slaughtering the lap record by almost a second....with a car setup for asphalt! They beat it in less than a battery pack each, on a car only peter had drove a few times 3 years earlier.

The car died that day, when Trav hit the end of the straight at full speed......exploded the entire front end.

Mod Pro10 is undriveable in a worse fashion than mod foam touring was for 99.999% of the population...and even for those .001%, one mistake and the car is typically dead.

Later EddieO
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:51 AM   #34
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There is no modified touringclass over here as it is pretty dead but still there is a world Championship Touringcar where they race with 3.0t boosted setups that are way faster then pro10 ever was in the brushed era. Clearly you can have a championship without having to have a modified class at your club?

It is not 1s vs 2s lipo or WGT vs pro10 or anything in between debate but more about why there isn't a worldchampionship for pancars. At least that is what the TS wanted to know i think.

Maybe its slowly coming back, our local club has just joined with WCICS, which is the Western Canada something something. :-)

Its a seven race series covering 4 provinces with the two furthest races alittle over 1500 miles apart. You have to race in 3/4 of the races for maximum points. Its a step towards a Canadian championship. (just waiting on the East Coast, and their 1500 miles to get a series going!)

Its not Pro10, but TC, 1/12, and WGT.

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Old 12-18-2011, 11:53 AM   #35
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In this video german guys donīt seem to crash at the end of the straight...

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
There is no modified touringclass over here as it is pretty dead but still there is a world Championship Touringcar where they race with 3.0t boosted setups that are way faster then pro10 ever was in the brushed era. Clearly you can have a championship without having to have a modified class at your club?

It is not 1s vs 2s lipo or WGT vs pro10 or anything in between debate but more about why there isn't a worldchampionship for pancars. At least that is what the TS wanted to know i think.
I think our biggest problem for having any kind of 1:10 scale world championship is an accepted specification that everyone is participating in globally. I think we would see more commonality if there were dedicated outdoor asphalt tracks with actual runoff area. All of the videos being posted have no wooden or plastic barriers separating each lane of racing traffic. It makes a difference knowing that if you make a tiny mistake your racing year might be over, not just a race. The sad part is, tracks that can run this kind of car are few and far between. The shopping center parkinglot tracks just aren't smooth enough.

As far as the 1S vs. 2S thing. Some people have come from 12th scale and want an additional class and car to have some extra fun with, they run 1S. Some people have Touring cars and 2S batteries and they look at 10th pan as an attractive second class. So, for now, the accepted standard is 1S. Either way it is second class until it becomes the majority. The reason to stay with the current WGT rule set is to establish the standard and maintain until there is a majority.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:37 PM   #37
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In this video german guys donīt seem to crash at the end of the straight...

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
I wish we had a track like that!
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:32 PM   #38
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One big problem with running World GT cars at a big event on carpet is passing. It is darn near impossible to pass cleanly with these cars, and usually ends up in a wreck of some kind. Outdoor asphalt would make sense if an IFMAR world championship would be added.
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:23 PM   #39
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Anyone who thinks a mod touring car is as fast as a pro10 is nuts. When brushed was near its end, we had a pro10 we had built for 2004 Onroad Nats in portland, as they were trying to revive the class using 4 cell 19t...we got bored one day and put six cells in it and a 7t v2. My indoor onroad carpet track was pretty big, 100+ foot straight, 60 feet wide.....laps were mid 10s with a mod touring car. Track record was Travis Schreven, Multiple time national champ, fully sponsored Xray driver....Peter Robinson was right behind him. They each ran the car, both slaughtering the lap record by almost a second....with a car setup for asphalt! They beat it in less than a battery pack each, on a car only peter had drove a few times 3 years earlier.

The car died that day, when Trav hit the end of the straight at full speed......exploded the entire front end.

Mod Pro10 is undriveable in a worse fashion than mod foam touring was for 99.999% of the population...and even for those .001%, one mistake and the car is typically dead.

Later EddieO
Hi Eddie

Sure you can strap in a 7t brushed and have a go but did they use those motors in a dedicated pro10 modified class or was it only for that one instance in a practise/fun session. (just curious)

Personaly I haven't heard of anyone using a 7t brushed in a pro10 modified class . ..at least not what i remember from other drivers. I could be wrong though and will surely ask around.

But my question about if those modified pancars back then were really too fast was more about the pancars on a normal asphalt circuit. Hence the movie in my previous post. Not on a small circuit where they use wooden barriers. If you are driving modified on a small carpet tracks then it is indeed nuts and not a good example of how to make a class work. A slower class is needed there. I totaly agree with you i can imagine it was too fast there for anyone then 99% of the drivers. It's a none discussion point. I was more curious if those stories are realy true or that people just remember the m to be fast.

I do know how fast a pancar can be. I drive one myself. We don't need a modified motor to beat modified tc's. A 10.5t and 2s lipo with some dynamic timing is enough.

Comparing a (modified) tc against a pancar with 10.5t and 2s is comparing apples with oranges but it is only to show how fast the laptimes are. (before getting flamed you can't compare the two)

Our weight limit is 1200 grams. The weight of my car is around 1230-1250 grams depending on big or smaller tires and type of body. So my car is usually only 120 grams lighter then the tc's. I know of others that are of simillar weight in our class.

It doesn't matter if it is on big 1/8 tracks or small basketball court 1/10 circuits. Imagine that we drive for 7 minutes and the modified only 5 minutes and everyone is amazed how much speed these cars have with 60-70 degrees C on the motor after 7 minutes runtime.

Reason we adopted the 10.5t was that back then the tc's were using those with 5 cells. Not knowing the whole dynamic timing thing would come up but it seems to have really settled now.

The oompf out of the corners is a lot less making driving them easier while retaining some of the excitement of going fast on the straight. (which can be pretty long here)

On outdoor tracks these cars are very drivable. Our nationals have a good selection of small and big tracks. The cars work good everywhere as long as the traction is not all too dramatic and you have at least a day to practise at the track. There was only one track where the cars didn't hook up due to the substrate that was pulverising. (they used a kind of tarmac coating and for some reason the toplayer is pulverising so everything is coverd in a permanent dust). It was the only race i could not attend but i heard they were all over the place there which made quite a poor show of what a pancar can do.

The modified pro10 are in a league of their own and are as fast as 1/8 nitro. It depends on the type of circuit if they are faster or not. once again it is apples with oranges but only to show how fast the cars are.


Last year indoor season we went from 13.5t to 17.5t and 2s and it made things more relaxing. 13.5t 2s and dynamic timing was way too fast for the track size.

This year they changed the layout a little so i wanted to try out 1s and a 10.5t to see how that goes. (you can use either a 10.5t with 1s or a 17.5t 2s) Talking is cheap so i wanted to see what 1s was all about on the track and to have a 1:1 comparisson. I even bought a hobbywing 120A 1s for it.

(I wanted to use one piece of my 2s saddlepack to use as a 1s battery and prepped my db10rr for it. )

Saddly 2 weeks later private stuff intervened and i can not drive for the whole indoor season. Some changed to 1/12 as they felt the cars were indeed too big for such a small circuit and others seem to have private matter to attend too as well so the class is not really taking off this winter.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:46 PM   #40
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I just want to thank you for being a person who posts information on RC Tech. It's great when people have the answers to the questions asked.
Thanks, I always find it more useful to answer the actual question than waste time spouting opinions and my own agenda.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:12 PM   #41
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In this video german guys donīt seem to crash at the end of the straight...

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
I think these pro10 cars in this video are faster than TC or really, really close

Seems they can go into the corner a little harder

Anyways WGT I like cause it doesn't seem very hard to drive which means it's not that intimidating for the average driver and it's pan car so it's got that fun and simple factor not to mention you've got spec tires so it's got to be pretty easy to find setups to copy and have fun but be very fast especially in 10.5/13.5 R or NR

Whatever

p.s. Wow would I like to race 12th mod on that track
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:04 AM   #42
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Maybe its slowly coming back, our local club has just joined with WCICS, which is the Western Canada something something. :-)

Its a seven race series covering 4 provinces with the two furthest races alittle over 1500 miles apart. You have to race in 3/4 of the races for maximum points. Its a step towards a Canadian championship. (just waiting on the East Coast, and their 1500 miles to get a series going!)

Its not Pro10, but TC, 1/12, and WGT.

Shawn
Good news, hope the series will be a hit. 1500 miles is that one way? Utmost respect to those that are attending that series.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:50 AM   #43
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One big problem with running World GT cars at a big event on carpet is passing. It is darn near impossible to pass cleanly with these cars, and usually ends up in a wreck of some kind. Outdoor asphalt would make sense if an IFMAR world championship would be added.
This statement makes no sence. Wgt cars are almost the same width as a tc and hold their line much better and if people can pass with a tc it easily can be done with a wgt
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:01 AM   #44
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I've raced the GT class in the UK since the launch at the Autosports show a few years ago (now that was a heck of a weekend!).

And over the last couple of years I've been lucky enough to race World GT at both the IIC in Vegas and the Snowbirds in Florida. Raced at my second IIC this October, and entered for my second Snowbirds in February next year.

To be honest I see both the IIC and the Snowbirds as the closest thing to a World Championships in the class. Top class meetings really well run with a high quality entry.

I've raced 12th Worlds on both tarmac and carpet, and tyres were tough to get right up front for the tarmac meetings. For me one of the attractions of the WGT class for fly away carpet racing is the spec tyre. Less to carry and we're all on the same tyre.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:26 AM   #45
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This statement makes no sence. Wgt cars are almost the same width as a tc and hold their line much better and if people can pass with a tc it easily can be done with a wgt

Makes no sense? Its because they hold their line much better than a TC that makes it impossible to pass. These cars have tons of traction and drive like a large 12th scale car. Passing lanes at the highest level arent there.
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