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Old 12-18-2011, 01:44 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
But as it is now, it seems to me that we have a great structure in place for 12th scale racers to pick their poison(s). 17.5 Blinky too slow for you? Run 13.5 Boosted.
And split the entry for the club and make more heats per week.

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The cars are slow enough that the average joe-racer can control them and feel comfortable doing so. The disparity in speed/lap-times between joe-racer and pro-racer is much smaller, since the disparity in skill level affects the car's overall pace less.
So is 13.5 non blinky, but again there is enough increase in speed that its not a convoy in the corners.

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Big fields at both big races and club races leads to more people wanting to race 17.5 Blinky 12th. If you know 17.5 Blinky 12th is going to have 60+ racers at the IIC that you are planning on attending, that might inspire you to race it at a club level. The perception of the class being popular will drive up entries.
Unless we can stop this silly 13.5 boosted class. Just make 13.5 blinky stock (for 1/12th or 1c classes alone!), or open. 2 classes versus 3. With a faster stock, but not so fast things break easy. With less worry about having to do every damn thing to get the most out of the motor to the point of killing it.

I just am reiterating. 1C Blinky 13.5 Class being recognized by big events. Get rid of 17.5 Blinky for 1C, and save the 17.5 classes for 2C cars. Or at least let it be up to the track which they want to do for the stock class depending on its size for events (i.e Roar or other event ruling body recognizes each tracks individuality).


Here is another selling point. If 13.5 blinky is used specifically for 1c stock racing. As the only stock class. Motor Manufacturers would be more inclined to sell them with the 1c rotors already installed. As that motors main use would be for this set class.

They currently don't sell 17.5 this way because there is no way of knowing what the end user will do with them. So you the end user still have to go out and purchase another rotor untop of the cost of installed rotor you will never use. While we have a magnetic shortage.... Other than the Manufacturer getting the extra money for the additional rotor. How does this make any sense?
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:04 PM   #62
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we have this discussion / arguement about what class(es) to run at our local venues too. Curiously, most of our locals prefer 17.5 blinky. Not sure why. Since it's not my personal favorite to go quite that slow, I can't explain why it's the popular choice. To my mind, any car that doesn't accelerate much as it exits the corners thru the infield just doesn't feel like a legitimate race car. But the good news........most of the well attended events do offer some sort of pro-stock class (typically 13.5, either boosted or blinky). If I were king, we'd be running 10.5 blinky. Plenty of speed and yet plenty of simplicity too. Count me as one of the guys who is not keen on bringing a laptop to the track. But, since i'm not king,.......we run what most of the guys want........which these days seems to be 17.5 blinky. Most anytime that a faster class is offered.......that's typically the one that I sign up for.........for the pure enjoyment and the thrill of the speed. And when there is no faster class available, then running 17.5 blinky is better than not racing.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:25 PM   #63
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Which is perfectly fine in TC racing where the cars are theoretically too fast and break at 17.5 boosted speeds. 12th cars with their lower mass, and lower voltage shrug off hits that peel steering blocks and caster blocks off TC's.

NO ONE ever got into this hobby to go slow. The first question every prospective newbie asks is "How fast does this go?"

Closer, Slower, racing is great in beginner classes. VTA, USGT, and even 17.5 blinky sedan (which is by no means entry-level) are fine. Regardless of how much we try to make 12th scale an entry level class, it NEVER will be. The cars are really no easier to drive at 17.5 blinky vs. boosted speeds, and the attention to detail a good chassis set-up requires is no different either. All that happens is that people who were two laps off are now only a lap off, because the fast guys cars have been regulated to be slower.

Factor in that we now have SLOWED the class down, making the step to faster OPEN classes more difficult, and we begin to see why Americans don't step to Mod anymore.

As I've stated before, the public has spoken, and Blinky is the way we will go in the future. Until everyone gets sick of it, and they come up with a new formula. It's racing, it's cyclic, and I'm done trying to fight it. If everything but Mod is going blinky, I'll run 13.5.
i don't know if 17.5 no timing is the right formula, I'm just saying warp speed 8 minute pucker racing is not going to boost turnouts. To me, it looks like we crossed the line where mod is a feasible class for average humans a long time ago. I can remember racing mod tc around 2000 and it would draw 1-2 heats on a race day. That dried up a long time ago.

Why does it matter if somebody puts a lap or 2 laps on the slow guys? Do you get a bigger trophy for that?
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:08 PM   #64
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i don't know if 17.5 no timing is the right formula, I'm just saying warp speed 8 minute pucker racing is not going to boost turnouts. To me, it looks like we crossed the line where mod is a feasible class for average humans a long time ago. I can remember racing mod tc around 2000 and it would draw 1-2 heats on a race day. That dried up a long time ago.

1s 17.5 boosted is hardly white knuckle, fully clenched, sweaty palms racing. It's only faster on the longer sections of the track. Plus, since 13.5 boosted requires esc knowledge, you can learn applicable skills for your move up the ladder.

Why does it matter if somebody puts a lap or 2 laps on the slow guys? Do you get a bigger trophy for that?

I guess I'm just "Old School" but If you have to slow a guy down for me to competitive, then I don't feel like I earned it. That really does seem to be a fading point of view these days.

Once again, I'm only referring to 12th scale and WGT. TC's with 2s packs are entirely different animals.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:11 PM   #65
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Once again, I'm only referring to 12th scale and WGT. TC's with 2s packs are entirely different animals.
Like i said, i don't know if 17.5 no timing is the answer. It may actually be too slow. I'm just saying the cars are getting faster every year, and the mod cars take talent and knowledge more than most other classes. Faster usually equals less participants.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:57 PM   #66
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My vote:

2 classes per car type

WGT = 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN
12th = 13. NR (stock) and OPEN
Sedan = 13.NR (stock) and OPEN

Now we're done debating let's go racing

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Old 12-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
My vote:

2 classes per car type

WGT = 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN
12th = 13. NR (stock) and OPEN
Sedan = 13.NR (stock) and OPEN

Now we're done debating let's go racing

I second the motion......
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:44 PM   #68
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I second the motion......
Then it's official, new rules to be implemented immediately...

True stock makes a comeback and a buttload of new mod racers chose OPEN when they want to go faster than 13.5 NR hence driving ability progression to the next faster class returns and sandbagging is no longer attractive and the norm

All the while every couple heats new heats are resorted so even level drivers qualify with drivers of their own speed in driving and setup complete package

Worse case senario 1 - fast drivers have hard time with setup or bad luck in qualifying and have to do fast qualifier with drivers that are still slower than himself or herself

Worse case scenario 2 - slow drivers have good qualifier and have chance to run in qualifiers with usual fast drivers

Let the games begin
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:26 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
Then it's official, new rules to be implemented immediately...

True stock makes a comeback and a buttload of new mod racers chose OPEN when they want to go faster than 13.5 NR hence driving ability progression to the next faster class returns and sandbagging is no longer attractive and the norm

All the while every couple heats new heats are resorted so even level drivers qualify with drivers of their own speed in driving and setup complete package

Worse case senario 1 - fast drivers have hard time with setup or bad luck in qualifying and have to do fast qualifier with drivers that are still slower than himself or herself

Worse case scenario 2 - slow drivers have good qualifier and have chance to run in qualifiers with usual fast drivers

Let the games begin
Okay, I hate to admit this, but I agree.......

Except for TC, 17.5 boostless is fine for them, they're savages lol!!!
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:59 AM   #70
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Okay, I hate to admit this, but I agree.......

Except for TC, 17.5 boostless is fine for them, they're savages lol!!!
new rules for 2012 US Indoor Champs. You read it here first. Also LOL.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:39 AM   #71
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My vote:

2 classes per car type

WGT = 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN
12th = 13. NR (stock) and OPEN
Sedan = 13.NR (stock) and OPEN

Now we're done debating let's go racing

Actually, this isn't a bad idea at all. I like the idea of going back to only having 2 subclasses per car-type class.

That being said, the hierarchy we have currently have in place for 12th scale is working very well. I think the jump in speed from 17.5 Blinky to 13.5 Boosted to Mod is perfect. There is something for everyone. And if it ain't broke.......

Sedan, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing just 17.5 Blinky and Mod. Especially since the "Super Stock" sedan class seems to change at every race. ROAR can't decide what it wants Super Stock to be. The big races that aren't ROAR sanctioned, like the Snowbirds and the IIC, are using 17.5 Boosted and are seeing great turnouts for the class. Im not sure why ROAR wants to go against the grain...
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #72
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Actually, this isn't a bad idea at all. I like the idea of going back to only having 2 subclasses per car-type class.

That being said, the hierarchy we have currently have in place for 12th scale is working very well. I think the jump in speed from 17.5 Blinky to 13.5 Boosted to Mod is perfect. There is something for everyone. And if it ain't broke.......

Sedan, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing just 17.5 Blinky and Mod. Especially since the "Super Stock" sedan class seems to change at every race. ROAR can't decide what it wants Super Stock to be. The big races that aren't ROAR sanctioned, like the Snowbirds and the IIC, are using 17.5 Boosted and are seeing great turnouts for the class. Im not sure why ROAR wants to go against the grain...
Let's just call the 17.5 a "beginner" class

So

WGT = 17.5 NR (Beginner), 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN
12th = 17.5 NR (Beginner), 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN
Sedan = 17.5 NR (Beginner), 13.5 NR (stock) and OPEN


Infinite 12th for Roar President ...lol

This is all based on the progression theory principles

Meaning a couple of things

1. We need in a positive way to put attention on beginners, as do beginners need a 13.5 NR class to look up to and to aspire one day to achieve that speed and driving ability

2. Stock drivers can also value the beginner class and be supremely helpful to the beginners and a great relationship between beginner and stock (stock) classes would create greater excitement about progression to the next class

3. For stock drivers they would recieve positive attention for when they themselves would progress to OPEN class

I think these ideas would be great for sponsors and drivers alike

Just my two.5 cents
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #73
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Back in the day when I used to race motocross, it was a pretty simple solution to sandbaging.

17.5 NR (Novice class, 3 wins in a season or 7 top 10 finishes bumped you up to Amature)
13.5 NR (Amature class, 3 wins in a season or 7 top 10 finishes bumped you to Expert)
10.5 OPEN (Expert class. No restriction for how long you hang out in this class, moving to the Pro class was always a racers choice...usually desire as well.)
MOD (Pro class. Simply put, best of the best...with honors! lol!)

I don't know, maybe I am too hard core of a racer, but a format like that sure wouldn't make me wanna just hang out and remain lord of the flies! And I am pretty sure that most all US indoor carpet tracks can easily handle blinky motors in 12th scale cars all the way up to 10.5.

*zips up flame retardant suit*
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:59 PM   #74
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Topic says 12th..........
12th IS NOT A BEGINNER CLASS!
slower speeds does not make it a beginner class either.

now if you want to start (newb) in 12th, so be it.

Also note that 12th has such a well rounded learning curve, too bad the straight has a 90* corner at the end of it!
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:20 PM   #75
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Topic says 12th..........
12th IS NOT A BEGINNER CLASS!
slower speeds does not make it a beginner class either.

now if you want to start (newb) in 12th, so be it.

Also note that 12th has such a well rounded learning curve, too bad the straight has a 90* corner at the end of it!
Well, 1/12 isn't a beginner class, but what exactly is the beginner class for onroad? I really don't know, might be VTA now but that gets so competitive it loses a lot of the fun. Also, it seems that unless people these days start out good at something they tend to get discouraged and quit. Ideally you could have novice classes but that might be starting to spread your racers a little thin.

I LOVED your reason for editing your previous post, made me laugh
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