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Old 12-17-2011, 03:13 PM   #46
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For those that have 17.5 blinky. Have you at least tried 13.5 blinky and seen what your racers say? I know the lap times aren't much faster. But there is more leeway without having the expense and one mishap and your out of mod. I can see on smaller tracks 17.5. But I think Roar should let there be an option for 13.5 at the individual tracks discretion.


Anyhow Repost from another thread. It belongs more in here.


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agree with the 1S using 13.5 versus 17.5 for Roar blinky events.


Having run both on the same track in blinky mode in 1/12th.

13.5 since you have to let off at some points, you can work on lines. You can make up easier for any mistakes. The difference in speeds isn't as bad on the straight. Because again, everyone is going to have to let off at some point. If you get behind slightly, you still have a chance to catch up.

17.5 Blinky? If all you are doing is basically going the same slow speed for the majority of the race, you first have to take such incredibly close lines and not be hit by anyone. Second, ANY little difference in RPM is noticeable. So your frustrated you cant get the same speeds down the straight as others (not mentioning my personal crap performance infield ). If you get behind slightly, unless the drivers in front hit one another or a barrier.. you might as well give up and just try to keep your current position.

Running mod is a silly way to bypass the above points. It also forgets about just how much more expensive running full out mod is if you or someone else gets the car into the pipe wrong. 17.5 is just too damn frustrating. It doesn't feel like stock class versus spec. (I mean spec as in classes like running silver can classes.) Stock should allow some leeway. 17.5 1s does not and is not as fun.
P.S. I would argue 17.5 is more expensive as well. Because there is no leeway, any little advantage a person wants whether its really their driving/setup. They will be purchasing the newest motor all the time. 13.5 for 1s, again, not as critical.

They also will have more chances of killing rotors trying to overtime the motor for that extra oomph.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
For those that have 17.5 blinky. Have you at least tried 13.5 blinky and seen what your racers say? I know the lap times aren't much faster. But there is more leeway without having the expense and one mishap and your out of mod. I can see on smaller tracks 17.5. But I think Roar should let there be an option for 13.5 at the individual tracks discretion.


Anyhow Repost from another thread. It belongs more in here.
It seems in reading your post and your quoted post that you believe mod is more expensive and harder to catch up if crashed, etc...

To me with extra horsepower it is much easier to play catch up than going dead 17.5 slow and having to drive perfect

And with mod all motors are fast so no going through tons of blinky motors or burning them up boost IMHO

Otherwise I think 17.5 is so popular cause it's stock (the slow class) and people like stock and the fact that generally the best racers race mod so in racing stock they believe they can have a chance to be a winner than a loser. No one likes being a loser

I grew up in the era of progressing to the next class so when I had gained throttle and steering skills I moved to mod and only raced stock to kill time not necessarily to win every class
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:10 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Infinite 12th View Post
It seems in reading your post and your quoted post that you believe mod is more expensive and harder to catch up if crashed, etc...
Harder? How did you get that? No, its easier to catch up in mod (if you have the driving ability) as you have no limits on power. Whats wrong with mod is its expense if you do whoops. Your out of the race at least. You also split local classes. Thats what I was attempting to point out with the simple response for those that think 17.5 is too slow is to just drive mod. I'm giving a middle ground trying to show 13.5 blinky stock has more advantage then given credit for 1s.

Quote:
To me with extra horsepower it is much easier to play catch up than going dead 17.5 slow and having to drive perfect
No disagreement


Quote:
And with mod all motors are fast so no going through tons of blinky motors or burning them up boost IMHO
Which I think 17.5 because there is no leeway is especially prone to. Hence why I am attempting to promote 13.5 stock blinky being legal for 1s and some tracks by Roar.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:26 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
Harder? How did you get that? No, its easier to catch up in mod (if you have the driving ability) as you have no limits on power. Whats wrong with mod is its expense if you do whoops. Your out of the race at least. You also split local classes. Thats what I was attempting to point out with the simple response for those that think 17.5 is too slow is to just drive mod. I'm giving a middle ground trying to show 13.5 blinky stock has more advantage then given credit for 1s.




No disagreement




Which I think 17.5 because there is no leeway is especially prone to. Hence why I am attempting to promote 13.5 stock blinky being legal for 1s and some tracks by Roar.
Ooops the translator is failing again ...lol

Well I see that your correct in 13.5 being not so hard on the car if you hit the board and that it should be considered more when thinking of stock

I guess what I was trying to translate properly was that the progression to move up from class to class is almost non-existant except for a few remaining renegades that still want to grow and learn as drivers

Sorry for the mix up your point is well received
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:56 PM   #50
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An interesting comparison to the above posts would be Naoto Matsukura @ the IIC this year... TQ and win in Mod 12th but qualed 4-5th and finished 6th in Super Stock.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:48 PM   #51
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Two years ago we ran 13.5 open in 1/12 scale. There was a lot of crying that it was too fast and wrecking cars. OK, enter 17.5 open, now the cars are not too fast but they're still wrecking them. Go figure. I like it because it suits my slower driving style and I do manage to win most of the races by staying whole for the entire eight minutes.

Actually on our smallish track it feels fast but I am faster with my WGT in laptimes.

I don't really care what powers the cars as long as we can race them.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:58 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
Two years ago we ran 13.5 open in 1/12 scale. There was a lot of crying that it was too fast and wrecking cars.
Not blinky though?
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:39 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
Not blinky though?
No blinky. That was too slow.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by kingbee9 View Post
i fail to see how spec racing is unfair or offers no close racing. as a matter of fact at this years Halloween Classic (180 entries with at least 40 more entries on a waiting list) the most exciting class to watch was 17.5 rubber tire touring car....blinky. it was VERY close racing and came down to driving. blowing corners, you lost the race. all the cars were tech-ed and the edge was having the best motor setup (timing wise), car setup and driving ability. but it was fun and fair all the way down to the last guy in the class.
Here's the video from the A-main of this race. 17.5 "blinky" on a small track isn't really that slow, and the racing is pretty great. Of course there's some room to go faster, but most of us do this as a hobby, one or twice a week if we're lucky. It's really hard to develop the chops to race faster classes and still have a day job and a life.

That said, the winner of this race is also the guy that TQ'd 13.5 boosted 1/12 at IIC over pros and world champions. Just a regular guy that does this for a hobby and races once a week. Don't underestimate the challenge of making slow(er) fast. It, like mod, is an art of its own.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Here's the video from the A-main of this race. 17.5 "blinky" on a small track isn't really that slow, and the racing is pretty great. Of course there's some room to go faster, but most of us do this as a hobby, one or twice a week if we're lucky. It's really hard to develop the chops to race faster classes and still have a day job and a life.

That said, the winner of this race is also the guy that TQ'd 13.5 boosted 1/12 at IIC over pros and world champions. Just a regular guy that does this for a hobby and races once a week. Don't underestimate the challenge of making slow(er) fast. It, like mod, is an art of its own.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
Pay no attention to this guy he's scared to run blinky cause its toooo ffaasstt lol
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:30 PM   #56
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I think what people use for track barriers has a lot to do with it as well.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Here's the video from the A-main of this race. 17.5 "blinky" on a small track isn't really that slow, and the racing is pretty great. Of course there's some room to go faster, but most of us do this as a hobby, one or twice a week if we're lucky. It's really hard to develop the chops to race faster classes and still have a day job and a life.

That said, the winner of this race is also the guy that TQ'd 13.5 boosted 1/12 at IIC over pros and world champions. Just a regular guy that does this for a hobby and races once a week. Don't underestimate the challenge of making slow(er) fast. It, like mod, is an art of its own.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
Not much passing. Is this really racing or following the leader.? Heck mod would only be faster in the straight on that track. The lanes are to tight to really get any race on. No inside option for a mod race. Or out side lane option. Looks like a get in line and and hope the guy in front fobbles. Good Q why so popular?
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:17 AM   #58
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Yet 25 years ago when there was a ZZ main at Cleveland mod cars where probably not much faster than a 17.5 boosted, and how slow where the stock cars? On Sanyos that had like 1.12 voltage @ 10A load?

Sometimes participation actually increases when racers have success in driving the car around the track without tearing a corner off.
Which is perfectly fine in TC racing where the cars are theoretically too fast and break at 17.5 boosted speeds. 12th cars with their lower mass, and lower voltage shrug off hits that peel steering blocks and caster blocks off TC's.

NO ONE ever got into this hobby to go slow. The first question every prospective newbie asks is "How fast does this go?"

Closer, Slower, racing is great in beginner classes. VTA, USGT, and even 17.5 blinky sedan (which is by no means entry-level) are fine. Regardless of how much we try to make 12th scale an entry level class, it NEVER will be. The cars are really no easier to drive at 17.5 blinky vs. boosted speeds, and the attention to detail a good chassis set-up requires is no different either. All that happens is that people who were two laps off are now only a lap off, because the fast guys cars have been regulated to be slower.

Factor in that we now have SLOWED the class down, making the step to faster OPEN classes more difficult, and we begin to see why Americans don't step to Mod anymore.

As I've stated before, the public has spoken, and Blinky is the way we will go in the future. Until everyone gets sick of it, and they come up with a new formula. It's racing, it's cyclic, and I'm done trying to fight it. If everything but Mod is going blinky, I'll run 13.5.
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:25 AM   #59
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How are we gonna argue with that..........oh, that's right, some people don't understand 12th scale, just think it's smaller than 10th.

Awesome summary!
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:26 AM   #60
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I guess I am sort of confused as to why having 17.5 Blinky is a problem for some?

Right now, most major races have 3 12th classes. 17.5 Blinky, 13.5 Boosted, and Mod. That seems like a pretty good hierarchy to me.

If all we had was 17.5 no-timing and Mod, I would tend to agree with a lot of the above comments. The disparity in speed is too great for most to be comfortable moving forward without significant practice/training at Mod speeds.

But as it is now, it seems to me that we have a great structure in place for 12th scale racers to pick their poison(s). 17.5 Blinky too slow for you? Run 13.5 Boosted.

If the argument is why does 17.5 Blinky prosper on a club level compared to the other faster 12th classes... Well, I gave my answer above:

1) The cars are slow enough that the average joe-racer can control them and feel comfortable doing so. The disparity in speed/lap-times between joe-racer and pro-racer is much smaller, since the disparity in skill level affects the car's overall pace less.

2) Big fields at both big races and club races leads to more people wanting to race 17.5 Blinky 12th. If you know 17.5 Blinky 12th is going to have 60+ racers at the IIC that you are planning on attending, that might inspire you to race it at a club level. The perception of the class being popular will drive up entries.

3) The perception of a level playing field. Be it because of the blinky speedo settings or because many Pro racers now run Super Stock regularly, joe-racer seems to find refuge in 17.5 Blinky 12th. There is an appearance of things being relatively equal between the racers....
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