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Old 12-17-2004, 01:25 PM   #106
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Why not GT and GTP??? Why don't we just have 1 body and 1 bodystyle and everyone can run that..... Seems like that's what it's becoming anyway.... Every year each manufacturer comes out with their latest and greatest and we all just run that... Bad idea, huh??? Well that's what we are doing.....

Why not seperate the HP by more than just a name??? Stock running 1 style, mod another???? We already lend ourself to it with stock and spec classes.... You may even get more people to be interested in watching this hobby.... Think Joe Shmoo knows the difference between the classes we run??? There's been so much talk of RC on TV, not gonna happen with 100 people running a race with all the same body.... If we are going to follow the real world in racing, let's do so... If not then let's just throw scale apearance out the window and get some real performers out there... (Where's Danny Eliot???)

We all have our opinions.... It's combining those and making something work....

Dale, I have great respect for what you do and keep up the good work....
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:26 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Billanti
if rubber didnt cost so much and wear out so fast, I would love to run them. Infact, I used to run rubber. Untill you run a guy with a 100% tire sponsor it is actually pretty cool. Even with the partial support on rubber I had at thie time, I couldnt afford to run a new set every run to keep up with someone who could. It was one thing to have a stock pile for big races, but for club races--- never...

foams rock. They last longer, provide more traction and are cheaper. Sounds like a win win situation to me.

KB
Over here you just CAN'T run a new set every run because they are LIMITED in number, so that costs is much cheaper. Foam tyres are more expensive for a set than rubber.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:28 PM   #108
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Keith, You are 100% correct I love going to a carpet track with purples and plaids and not having to worry about tires. Plus it is cheap considering with rubber you needed a stock pile, then you have air gap issues.....glue issues, wheel size,.........ETC ETC ETC. Instead I cut my motor every other run, and you need really good batteries. I've seen a better solution in FL with thier state series races, where you may only run Proline H13's, you buy 2 full sets for $25.00 which last quite a while, they aren't really hooked up like another tire would be but they don't suck either, mod motors will go a few more runs without being cut, batteries are less of an issue and again the car handling/setup is the key focus.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:29 PM   #109
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Dave Alberico- is this the same Dave that ran in FLA. in 98-99's about

As for the bodies everytime Protoform releases a new body people go on threads like this one and bash them. I have never seen this type of attention for any other manufactures bodies i.e. when Tamiya copies the Stratus 2.0 and called it a legacy , or when Yokomo showed up with a Stratus E type( E meaning there 5th version). The ONLY time I have ever seen the manufacturer come on a thread and express his point of view and awnser questions about his bodies is Dale. I for one like the bodies to look some what reallistic and ROAR seems to be doing NOTHING to help ,but then again when 4 of the biggest races every year are not ROAR sanctioned what does that say about ROAR.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:42 PM   #110
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I'd like to touch on the whole realism factor of body selection.

Its been said that the appeal of TCs roots in their resemblance to the full scale cars. I'd have to agree. But I don't think that the strict adherance to scale realism is necessary. Honestly how many RC racers can truly distinguish the variances of our 1th scaled versions? Even then, how many find these variances to be of a magnitude to claim that the bodies do not look like Touring Cars( rather than a specific make of TC).

There is the answer in my opinion. So long as it resembles a TC rather than a specific make of a TC then there will be the appeal that made the class so popular in the first place. Sure there will be those full scale enthusiasts that can distinguih evey minor varicance and oddity, but generally speaking it will still resemble a TC.

So why not come up with some regulations upon dimensions like has been mentioned before... then let the Manufacturers produce unique TC style bodies that end up not only performing better but looking better than exact scale replicas. To claim that increased performance means nothing because everyone will buy them and as such everyone will be faster makes little sense as the TC chassis designs keep getting better, faster, and easier to drive. There is still competative variety there... and with creative autonomy the body designers would do the same.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:50 PM   #111
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Painting Roly: Yeap......I live in Kansas City, or moved there in 2000
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Old 12-17-2004, 02:37 PM   #112
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I have spoken with several manufacturers about all of this. The seed money and a percentage of the operating expenses would be provided annually by manufacturers. At this point (2004 fiscal year) ROAR has cost the R/C industry deep into the 6 figures due to lost sales, rule obsoleted stock, abandoned R&D projects, etc. 19T motors are a good example. One Manufaturer told me that they scrapped a R&D program that they had spent 5 figures on for a new 19T becuase ROAR changed the 19T rules without mentioning it to them. An error by ROAR amlost made the Mazda 6 illegal for the Worlds...A Mazda 6 won the event! A year ago there was a rule on the table to allow 5 port turbo plug motors to be run in 1/10th sedans. They were going to do this until a few engine importers caught wind of it and told ROAR that there were over $200,000 of 3 port engines in the country and they would all become garbage if they inacted this rule.

The manufacturers I spoke with were eager to be a part of new business venture who's goal was to promote R/C Cars in North America.

The rest of the operating expenses would come from a percentage of the racer memberships fees.

This is all do-able. all that need to be done is to get a few motivated, capable people to sit down in a room and hammer out a detailed business plan, get quotes on a national liability insurance policy for the members and outline a corporate structure.
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:06 PM   #113
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To Dale:

I find it telling that you offered a system of rules for body development, yet nothing was even acknowledged. I wish that your efforts had actually caused some change, since I feel like bodies are starting to get wacky. 1/12 was the first stage. Has anyone looked at a BRP Nissan lately? They look very strange after seeing nothing but the new bodies aout there. Thanks for trying Dale.

Adrian:

Good luck. This discussion seems to happen every few years, but nothing happens. If you can pull it off, my hat will be off to you.
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:10 PM   #114
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JKA- You make a good point. I have had multiple bodies shipped to my office all at once and showed them to my co workers. I had a Proto Alpha 2, Mazda 6, and a Losi Aplha. Obviously these are all very different shaped bodies and any one of us could tell from 60 feet away what body is what. But the people in my office who are not involved in the industry, i.e. people who we would be trying to attract to the hobby, had them right in front of them and could hardly tell the difference. To them it's a sedan body. It's the picky bastards like us that notice the details that make these bodies handle in different ways.
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Old 12-17-2004, 04:16 PM   #115
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Adrian has the right plan, but you still need to find people who aren't directly connected to manufacturers (or so I believe). Regardless of how fair people are, there will always be those who think they have their own agenda--a point that comes up from time to time with ROAR.
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Old 12-17-2004, 04:18 PM   #116
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robk - Yeah, I have been doing this long enough to have seen a few attempts in the past. I had a long talk with Gene Hustings about that at the Worlds
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Old 12-17-2004, 04:28 PM   #117
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Shane - Manufacturers, sanctioning bodies and consumers are linked in a circle and there is no way one group can be excluded.

When it come down to it the manufacturer's only agenda is the health of the R/C industry. If everyone is having fun they make money. If R/C is no fun people quit and they lose money.

Sorry for hijacking this thread - Awesome body Dale! I'll be rockin' one at the Birds!
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:23 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by daleepp
Hey Guys
Not trying to confuse matters more, but I figured I'd just throw this out as food for thought.
Have you see the current generation of 4 dr sedans running in the DTM Series. Wow! They don't look like "Angry Dale" bodies, they look like "Dale on Crack" bodies. Unbelievably radical - flares, wings,deflectors, flippers, winglets, strakes, splitters, vortex generators - like an F1 car with fenders. Did it hurt that series in any way to let it go that direction. No it would appear, not one bit. Every venue on the circuit has a sellout crowd. Standing room only at the famous 'Ring! Equal ticket sales to when the F1 circus is there. And Shumi's not even there! (Nurburgring is in Germany)
Makes you wonder if there is'nt a lot of race fans out the who actually like "radical" bodywork. (so long as the Audi's and Benz's are still distinguishable) I'm NOT saying that I think rc bodies should all be DTM style, however we should be openminded as to the fact that we all have different ideas as to whats acceptable and what's "cool". I think this DTM series is evidence to that fact.
Check out this link.
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/sel...day_qualifying

Once a get a little work done, I'll share a few of my views on product sponsorship - for whatever its worth. Its another topic I accidentally got started here on RC Tech.

Have a great day - Dale Epp - PROTOform

PS: there have only been 2 so called "Angry Dale" bodies to date. A MonteCarlo stock car and a recent 12th scale body. It was just a pretty funny name someone gave those bodies - think it was Barry. Either way, I'm generally a pretty happy guy - just a little intense at times. This is my livelyhood so I tend to take it seriously.

I saw a small part of the DTM this weekend... First thought that I had was, what rules do they implement when deciding wether those bodies are legal. They are so butchered up the only telling factors regarding the brands of those bodies are the grille/hood lines. The other question that came out of viewing this race was why do we have restrictions on the rear wings, they (DTM) don't seem to have any.

Whatever.. can't wait for my 3.0 to hit the shelf. I finished off my Alpha 2.0 today, and have to settle for a Stratus 2.0. That was the last logical choice on the rack...
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Old 12-20-2004, 02:11 AM   #119
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As far as I’m concerned there are three options for Touring Car bodies:


1) Realistic (HPI does an excellent job)

2) Morphed Generic (aka: any “sedan”-ish shape with the appropriate headlight/taillight stickers, Protoform does a great job with this)

3) Funny Car (like current odd-but-aero-Disney 1/12th bodies)

RULE A) R/C racing is big business for the manufacturers: If your part/body/chassis/motor/engine/whatever wins the Worlds then you better ramp up production.


Problem with “1” is that in the end, RULE A will result in a single body that everyone buys. Why? Because for R/C if the bodies are ultra-realistic then a particular shape will yield the best results on a particular surface and all the factory drivers will be forced to use it to be competitive in a fiercely competitive arena.

Problem with “3” is that sedans will die and eventually we’ll all be racing Lolas with Stratus headlamp stickers.

Problem with “2” is there is no enforcement of “shape.” “2” will require strict enforcement of a NASCAR-like standard or else we just naturally evolve to “3.”

I love the look of the “Stratus 3,” but it is (along with the Parma Alpha and Ride [insert your favorite model here]) just a stepping stone to Disneyland sedan bodies. Truth is current “winning” bodies are generic slab-sided sedan clones with VW bug rooflines and Stratus lights. Rules pushed to the edge. What will be the breaking point?

I don’t hold out much hope for said sanctioning bodies, and we’re currently headed down the path to Neverland…
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Old 12-20-2004, 02:19 AM   #120
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It´s starnge. No one mention Losi Alfa. That´s a wierd one, and in my opinion, the one that started it to go downhill.
But I guess, they did it ONLY to make it competetive. Right?
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