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Old 11-29-2011, 08:15 PM   #46
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No , please come to Mississippi....there is no onroad racing in Mississippi!!!!!

Dangit Hairy! I know the job is important but you have the skill to come back to GA and find something to keep busy. Or,Start a track. Even a parking lot setup could work and if need be you can use my scoring system for a while
to get it going. It's not a problem since everyone here seems to carry a spare with them at every race. We can all go back to silvercans and not worry about boost and other nonsence like that. Just a thought.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
Really? At the track where I race, a 10.5 blinky would be eaten alive by a 13.5 boosted and not just down the straight either, infact a 17.5 boosted would likely do the same.
Then you just prove my point that there is a big disparity in speed when using boost of any kind. 17.5 boosted is faster than 10.5 blinky? Well how do you compare 10.5 boosted on one to another 10.5 boosted on another? Are they the same? Most likely not.

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Originally Posted by WheelNut View Post
It's so nice to FINALLY see someone blaming newbies for the problems in on-road!

We're running blinky in TC here. It's going great so far.
No body is blaming newbies for anything. However, they're better off learning how to drive with blinky instead of squirting their throttle all over the place with boosted.

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Originally Posted by Highside20 View Post
I think you missed my point. I do not blame newbie’s. We need more newbie’s.

Maybe incorrectly, but I feel there is a different attitude today than there was when I was growing up.
Definitely agree with you on that.

The way the classes are structured, there is always an A-main for each class but no B or C. So you'll have 3 or 4 different classes each having a single main which is only A.

Make racing anything goes and you'll have racers classified by their ability to go around the track the fastest regardless of what they have and you'll have B, C and even D. But like you said the mentality is that different nowadays and people don't want to come home saying "I got first place in the D main".

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Originally Posted by ShrewdRacer View Post
for escs/motor, i think the equalizer is boost. finding a hot motor is senseless if you can't tune your esc right. and buying more motors just complicates things even more as it requires different settings on the ESC.
This works if the class is "anything goes". The problem with any "class" blinky or boosted is you're trying to fix a standard for people to conform to by saying that everyone is level if they all have 10.5, 13.5, or even 17.5.

The point I see being made is that no motor is equal even if it has the same winds boosted or non-boosted. So why even set any spec which people must conform to a set number of winds?

Make it all mod and it all goes away. Have people classified based on their ability and not some physical aspect of their car. They do this in real car racing (even drag racing) where racers are grouped by their qualifying performance.

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Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
Doesn't seem to affect the nitro guys much, nobody there is screaming to mandate locked carb needles.
I race nitro also. There, its anything goes. How do you fix a spec on a motor? There are 3-port .12 motors that are faster than 5 port .12 motors and the same difference for .21 in 1/8th. However, they do allow sometimes classes like "sportsman" and "expert" but when there is not enough for "sportsman" everyone runs in "expert".

In the end they're all classified by their ability in their respective mains. Thats how it should be in electric. Class people by their ability(driving skill and setup skill) and not their motors and this discussion all goes away.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:16 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude View Post
This works if the class is "anything goes". The problem with any "class" blinky or boosted is you're trying to fix a standard for people to conform to by saying that everyone is level if they all have 10.5, 13.5, or even 17.5.

The point I see being made is that no motor is equal even if it has the same winds boosted or non-boosted. So why even set any spec which people must conform to a set number of winds?

Make it all mod and it all goes away. Have people classified based on their ability and not some physical aspect of their car. They do this in real car racing (even drag racing) where racers are grouped by their qualifying performance.
there still has to be some form of classes according to motor windings. imagine a race of 20 people, 15 of which race mod, while the remaining are an assortment of lower wind racers. the top 10 for A-main would be aptly ranked to "skill/ability", but what about the B-main racers? the top 5 would of course be the mod racers, then the last 5 would be the non-mod racers. as a non-mod racer on that B-main, your chances of finishing at the top3 would be very small. and while I agree that winning isn't for everyone, there still has to be some form of motivation for racers to actually race. Why would you even race your 13.5 vs a mod? and chances are, if he's racing mod then he's probably better and more experienced than you.

point is, racing has to stay relatively competitive to keep the fun of "racing". but spec-ing it so everyone bunches up isn't the solution,because as you said there are practically no 2 same esc/motor/car/setup out there to bring racing to an equal level between racers.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:25 AM   #49
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and in case you guys watch F1, this is actually their current dilemma. they want to have close racing for a more enjoyable watch on our tellies, and they are doing it exactly how the rc industry is doing it (which is wrong imo). limiting motors, halting R&D (aero particularly), controlling tires, giving out budget caps, etc.

and look how the engineers has responded to the rules in trying to control aerodynamics, they always manage to find loopholes one after another. same with spec-ing in RC, people will always try to find that extra 'oomph' from another component.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ShrewdRacer View Post
there still has to be some form of classes according to motor windings. imagine a race of 20 people, 15 of which race mod, while the remaining are an assortment of lower wind racers. the top 10 for A-main would be aptly ranked to "skill/ability", but what about the B-main racers? the top 5 would of course be the mod racers, then the last 5 would be the non-mod racers. as a non-mod racer on that B-main, your chances of finishing at the top3 would be very small. and while I agree that winning isn't for everyone, there still has to be some form of motivation for racers to actually race. Why would you even race your 13.5 vs a mod? and chances are, if he's racing mod then he's probably better and more experienced than you.

point is, racing has to stay relatively competitive to keep the fun of "racing". but spec-ing it so everyone bunches up isn't the solution,because as you said there are practically no 2 same esc/motor/car/setup out there to bring racing to an equal level between racers.
Then have everyone do a three lap qualifier on their own to determine their ability and group them from there.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:13 PM   #51
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I think that stock/spec classes should be non-boosted. Boosted is a “modified” profile on the speedo; it should be run in an open mod class along with any motor you want. I don’t think one has a significant cost savings over the other. I think boosted is causing a similar problem to that of 19 turn brushed motors; they are just a class divider, not as fast as mod but faster than stock. All of R/C IMHO is having the same problems, too much class diversity. How are we to have a competitive 3 to 4 heats per classes of there are TC 13.5-boosted, TC 13.5 non-boosted, TC mod, WGT 13.5-boosted, WGT 13.5 non-boosted, WGT mod, 1/12 13.5-boosted, 1/12 13.5 non-boosted, 1/12 mod, VTA, F1 and others. You take 50 racers that come on a weekend to race and instead of 20 in each class you get 5 per class because everyone just runs what they want and it only takes 3 to make a heat.

I think there either needs to be a stronger set of guidelines/ rules (ROAR maybe? I don’t know) to just say this is the class structure, you can run class A or B or C not L, M, N, O… etc. OR we need to adopt a Le Mans style of racing. All TC’s run together, all WGT’s run together and all 1/12ths run together. There is an overall winner and a group winner for each class. The fast guys will be the fast guys no matter what so if you qualify 13th, you’re in the B but could still win your group ( maybe 13.5 non-boosted). Just get more racers per class!!!!

Either stop diluting the classes or adapt (Le Mans style) to get more competition.

Ok, that’s my 2 cents. Don’t hate me!
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:10 PM   #52
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See local club race class lap times and numbers from a master meet. Note 21.5 and 13.5T classes run open ESC.

Classes run 6 minutes except open which is 5 minutes.

There is a good separation in power output and lap times.

For a normal club day there will be a novice (run what you bring) class as well, beginners start in novice move up to 540 pro and then to a brushless open ESC class. This provides them with a chance to race something which suits there speed and budget.

Often after 12 months they will have a good chassi, have a grounding and will be competitive in 540pro at which point pending on funds and deadication they will then move up to the faster brushless classes.

As for those saying dynamic timing is too hard/too much for a newbies when they make the shift they get on top of it straight away often much faster than older more experienced drivers.


Mini (M-Chassis.Com)
Name ID# Fastest Lap
Brad Portelli 20.145
Bruce Rollins 20.168
Ashley Peeler 20.592
Tim Keiller 20.805
Paul Sims 20.864
Heath Murray 21.031
John Kounelis 21.085
David Roderick 21.163
Wayne Rabot 21.169
Rick Verbeek 21.696
Todd Anderson 21.98
Jovis Cardente 22.074
Theo Thodorou 22.295
Damien Kent 22.545
Mark Wolfenden 23.44
Nathan Wimhurst 23.601
Ned Dryden 24.42
Neil Russell 24.931
Alex Tsakanias 24.944
Tim Donoghue 25.505

540 Pro (RAB Hobbies)
Name ID# Fastest Lap
Adrian Bennett 20.878
Jon Theodorou 21.466
Michael Lane 21.62
Max Brouggy 21.713
Scott Agar 21.735
Darren Formosa 22.296
Liam James 22.384
Riley Donoghue 22.571
Mathew Mancs 22.664
Mike Hancock 23.355
Michael Mancs 25.081
Carter Sims 25.761
Michael Michaelides 28.506

21.5 (Super Mini Booster)
Name ID# Fastest Lap
Hani Abbas 18.626
Angelo Bordon 18.921
Carl Weller 18.948
Trevor Waye 19.066
Matthew King 19.12
Dave Bain 19.171
Aaron Van Berkel 19.312
Peter Bracka 19.569
Ken Gatt 19.654
Nathan Wimhurst 19.859
David Bennett 20.106
Rodney Warren 20.193
Nic Michaelides 20.328
Michael Willoughby 20.348
Tony Silber 21.313

13.5 (Metro Hobbies)
Name ID# Fastest Lap
Brendon McBain 16.786
Dave Calwell 17.058
Bruce Rollins 17.076
Alan Lui 17.127
James Ainslie 17.144
Brenton Bull 17.259
Chris Kyriacou 17.328
Chris Bismire 17.402
Sam Lau 17.466
John Grenville 17.543
Jason Ercegovic 17.652
Chris McHale 17.653
Michael Clark 17.742
Patrick Arena 17.743
Aaron Maas 17.853
Nigel George 17.905
Wayne Edwards 17.912
George Tsakanias 17.942
Bryce Shoemark 17.944
Daniel Sullivan 18.04
Michael Schreyer 18.112
Theo Thodorou 18.129
Michael Ellis 18.241
Jovis Cardente 18.349
Graham Bentley 19.715

Open (Eastern Press)
Name ID# Fastest Lap
Sandy Iavazzo 16.186
Andrew Abbott 16.307
Justin Vergunst 16.358
Andy Bishop 16.44
Tom De Nardis 16.45
Rhys Marshall 16.516
Matthew Guidotto 16.542
Zenkins Wong 16.549
Hau Shum 16.681
Todd George 16.692
Ryan Sims (SA) 16.817
Alex Wu 16.885
Ashley Peeler 16.959
Neil Russell 19.798
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:13 PM   #53
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This is what happens when you get rid of boosted classes......
http://www.redrc.net/2011/11/novak-p...-wire-stators/
Here's the beginning of the end!
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #54
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Yep in 12 months time everyone will be sick of motor wars and be back running dynamic timing ESCs.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbunny View Post
This is what happens when you get rid of boosted classes......
http://www.redrc.net/2011/11/novak-p...-wire-stators/
Here's the beginning of the end!
What....????

your Motor, Battery, or ESC are all important for ANY Type of racing. So claiming that one type of ESC setting aka "blinky" is going to cause issues where they are more important is non-sense. The issues are already there. If you think your motor or whatever only matters when you are racing blinky then why would it not matter for boosted? If you are seeing an improvement in Blinky with "x" motor would the same not hold true if you were racing boosted? So this whole stance that Boosted is going to create a motor war is foolish at best. Racers are going to look for whatever motor or battery advantage they can find thats just the nature of racing.....but to say Boost takes this away is a fallacy...this will always be the case no matter what esc settings you race on. Cause bottom line....a faster motor is a faster motor...period. Right or wrong all blinky does is take some of the guess work out of it.

Just race what ever it is you enjoy to race and have fun…..people will vote on what is better with their feet by showing up to race.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:52 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Thunderbunny View Post
This is what happens when you get rid of boosted classes......
http://www.redrc.net/2011/11/novak-p...-wire-stators/
Here's the beginning of the end!

Highly doubt that would be legal in a sanctioned event.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpod View Post
Yep in 12 months time everyone will be sick of motor wars and be back running dynamic timing ESCs.
Blinky has been going strong for the past 2 years. I don't see it slowing at all. If anything it's gaining more racers. I've been running the same motor for over a year.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:03 PM   #57
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Just like their 1300 rotors were going to be the beginning of the end? Even with that stator it'll still be slower than a crappy RevTech.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:30 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by wtcc View Post
In Germany the boosted classes are nearly dead. Very few are still interested in downloading new software on their esc just to have some Teamdrivers around at a race that have a "newer" software. In blinky this stupidity is over.
I am attending the LRP-HPI-Challenge and just bought one X12 17,5t and can race with the best in this class without thinking about motortemperature or having to fear some of them has a better X12. We have all the same speed on the straights.

I could never understand why somebody wants to run boosted in stock classes. Why not just use a 10,5t instead of 17,5t boosted? With this said I think the technology is awesome, but for the coming real 1:1 E-Cars. For RC-Stock-Racing it seems pointless...
Such a great post...timing classes are dead here locally as well. I think adjusting speed with motor is a better approach as well.

This is what happens when you add boost to stock racing...
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


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Old 11-30-2011, 03:34 PM   #59
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I'd put money the Novak stator being aimed at oval guys. They scrutinize every thing, and I know I have seen some of them who have said certain wire is better than others
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:01 PM   #60
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I'd put money the Novak stator being aimed at oval guys. They scrutinize every thing, and I know I have seen some of them who have said certain wire is better than others
That is a fact! The original ones are better. The resistance is better for some reason and it has to do with the wire color. Seen it proven time and time again on the meter and track. No clue what the difference in the color of the wire is other than the enamel coating but have heard a lot of ideas.

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