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Old 11-29-2011, 03:41 PM   #31
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Yeah right! let Moore, Rhienhart, Volker, Jeffies, Harper ect have a drive of your car, see if they can beat your lap times?

Bb
between me and them.. of course

but take any of the top drivers, and give them an edge, and they become dominant.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:42 PM   #32
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I am all for a balanced field and its all about skill to win races, but R/C has never been anything about fair and mostly about who was able to bring the biggest gun to the fight.
Of course for sponsored drivers there are still opportunities to chose the best equipment. From my point of view racing became more fair. The LRP-HPI-Challenge I drive is one fair competition with LRP blinky esc, VTEC CPX tires, Top Grip Carpet additive, X12 StockSpec 17,5t (or 10,5t depends on class) and Hot Bodies body. Everything else is free to chose as long as it is within EFRA rules. Now here even the Teamdrivers can't come with special rotors or else, because it is forbidden. This results in very close races where even the Teamdrivers have a hard time to compete. And I know what I am talking about because the european champion (B) VG10 couldn't only lap one thenth faster a lap in the last race (and chrashed in my car two times while trying to overtake ).
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:13 PM   #33
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It's so nice to FINALLY see someone blaming newbies for the problems in on-road!

We're running blinky in TC here. It's going great so far.
I think you missed my point. I do not blame newbie’s. We need more newbie’s.

Maybe incorrectly, but I feel there is a different attitude today than there was when I was growing up.

So what I’m trying to get at is that this is a mindset problem more than a “Boost or No Boost” problem. If people think something is unfair they will blame it for everything. In the end you just have to find a system that most people think is fair. Otherwise someone will always have an excuse for why they are not winning.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:19 PM   #34
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i think the debate should be more on boosted vs non-boosted, as 'turns' can be different depending on track size.


as for B'd vs N-B'd:

i don't want to go back to the time where people would be buying heaps of the same motor in hopes of getting the fastest one. Or the inifnite search for the best matched cells. but thanks to lipos, this disparity is gone and performance isn't actually that different from one another as modern lipos seems to give out more than what the ESC/Motor requires. it's the equalizer in batteries.

for escs/motor, i think the equalizer is boost. finding a hot motor is senseless if you can't tune your esc right. and buying more motors just complicates things even more as it requires different settings on the ESC.

Saying we should just all go blinky to get everybody to a common level isn't gonna solve it either. As people would just find another way to get that extra power from another component of his RC, be it batts, motor, setup, just not from his ESC. and I believe going blinky just drives the costs up as you have to compete by buying things to find that performance, instead of just tinkering with your gear to find the same performance. plus, if you're advancing the hell out of your motors every race, then the chances of you burning it gets high which further adds to the costs.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:25 PM   #35
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Can someone please invent a programmable receiver and and servo? I'm getting bored, there aren't enough adjustments on the car and motor to keep me interested.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:33 PM   #36
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And they said that brushless would stop the motor wars. Boosted was a bad idea from the start. Hey! let's take a motor that would be the same as a 27T and put a gizmo on it so it will act like a 19T that would double the cost of racing. Why not mount a 27T on one side of the pod and a 19T on the other. Let the radio handle switching to the motor you really want for the race. I think it's time to make it go away.

Blinky places more emphasis on handling to achieve better lap times.

No, that would be practice and paying attention to setups, then more practice.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:35 PM   #37
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Of course for sponsored drivers there are still opportunities to chose the best equipment.
).
Of course they get the best equipment and all the latest "go faster" goodies but without them testing all these parts there would be no new developements and you wouln't have the car you have today.

How many of you have bought your car because you were impressed by it doing 20mph with a 17.5 blinky? I bet not as many as those who bought theirs after seeing or reading reviews about its ability to tear around the track at 60mph!

Don't get me wrong blinky is great, so is boosted and modified, all have there place. The problem is that an awful lot of drivers think they are being beaten because someone has a secret part or is somehow cheating and fail to see the more obvious truth that they are being beaten by a better driver.


If you are competetive and happy with whatever class you run, surely thats all that really matters?

Bb
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:40 PM   #38
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And they said that brushless would stop the motor wars. Boosted was a bad idea from the start. Hey! let's take a motor that would be the same as a 27T and put a gizmo on it so it will act like a 19T that would double the cost of racing. Why not mount a 27T on one side of the pod and a 19T on the other. Let the radio handle switching to the motor you really want for the race. I think it's time to make it go away.

Blinky places more emphasis on handling to achieve better lap times.

No, that would be practice and paying attention to setups, then more practice.
having boost won't compensate for your bad driving despite having the speed on the straights. and imo, boost actually forces someone to drive better because there is less room for throttle errors.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:40 PM   #39
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I originally posted the following here

Whether it's Boosted, Blinky, or Mod, The Complete Package is needed to be successful.

The Complete Package includes things you can't buy, like skill, practice time, the knowledge to know how to set your car up, and what changes to your setup are needed for the conditions at hand.

The Complete Package also includes things you can buy, like motors, batteries, tires, chassis, speed controls, servos, bodies, and tuning option parts.

For every person on here talking about how hard ESC's are to program to run boosted, there is at least 1 thread on this same forum dedicated to tuning them.

For every person on here talking about how drivers set their cars up better when they run blinky, I would like to see race results from the event where a boosted driver won solely on horsepower.

For every person talking about how they don't want to have to cart a laptop to the track, there must have been 200 drivers at the IIC running boosted if only the boosted guys bring computers to the race, if event pictures can be trusted.


You want to really save onroad? Get out of this false mentality that racing is fair.

I've been racing far too long [not just RC] to believe the BS that unless everyone is slowed down, victory, or even just a good finish is outside your grasp. For every person spending their way to the front, there's another working harder on their setup and putting laps on their car to LEARN how to get to the front, while spending LESS money SMARTER.

Are electric racers really such prima-donna's that tuning the power plant AND the car is too complicated? Doesn't seem to affect the nitro guys much, nobody there is screaming to mandate locked carb needles.


While I will fight to race Boosted, whenever, wherever I can, for as long as I can, I have, and will continue to suggest newcomers start in Blinky. Touring cars are complicated, and setup will always been a huge portion of The Complete Package, and learning how to gear properly can be difficult enough without throwing in ESC tuning on top of that. There's only so many things you can experiment with effectively in a day.

HOWEVER, RC racers are, by nature, tinkerers. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone that calls themselves anything higher than a novice racer would want any adjustment TAKEN AWAY.

In fact, I've brought in a new TC racer this season who's been running RCGT fairly well, and have 2 other buddies that are thinking of starting this winter, who I have also suggested start in a blinky class. They all WANT to race boosted when they feel they're ready, after watching a few local Boosted mains.

Blinky started as a way to get a slower class on the books that would let newer guys learn to tune their car. The natural progression everyone should strive to, IMO, is Mod. Blinky 13.5 is not an intermediate class to mod, and absolutely SUCKS as a Super Stock formula. Boosted 17.5 has the corner rip and throttle control required to almost get fully prepared for mod, while being around the same speed as Blinky 13.5.

The perception that "stock" racing is level and fair has never been true, and trying to regulate it into being true is about as effective as trying to get Congress to stop spending money like a teenager with their parent's credit card.

Bottom line is, until you figure out how to get The Complete Package for yourself, no amount of rule changes are going to get you to the top of the results.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: WE ARE RACING. By definition it is a contest of speed. When you combine competition and speed, people will always strive to get faster [hence all the "Which ESC/Motor/Battery is best for Blinky" threads]. If you want to race, figure out how to go fast. If you want something easy to drive, get a soapbox racer.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:44 PM   #40
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If you are competetive and happy with whatever class you run, surely thats all that really matters?

You got it right. I can't drive worth a flip these days. But I always have fun with this. If there were no "blinky" everyone would have to actually drive the !!!#$% car to get there 1st. It's the same effect with an 8.5 as it is with a silvercan.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:46 PM   #41
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And they said that brushless would stop the motor wars. Boosted was a bad idea from the start. Hey! let's take a motor that would be the same as a 27T and put a gizmo on it so it will act like a 19T that would double the cost of racing. .
Really? speedos are $150, motors $90 both are petty near bombproof nowadays (unlike brushed motors, com lathes, com drops, brushes and don't forget speedo's that used to cost $300 and burst into flame for no reason) So long as you don't overheat or drown brushless motor, replace the bearings occasionally it should last a 100years

Bb
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
The Complete Package
Agreed. Spec-ing one aspect of the 'Package' is pointless as others will just tinker with other parts of the 'Package' to find the extra performance and the field is not level again. Spec-ing just eliminates one part for you to tinker, it doesn't level the playing field.

Even spec-ing the whole 'Package' will still not be fair for everyone as everyone doesn't have the same driving skill level.

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racing is level and fair has never been true
It never is, as with other things in life.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
I originally posted the following here

Whether it's Boosted, Blinky, or Mod, The Complete Package is needed to be successful.

The Complete Package includes things you can't buy, like skill, practice time, the knowledge to know how to set your car up, and what changes to your setup are needed for the conditions at hand.

The Complete Package also includes things you can buy, like motors, batteries, tires, chassis, speed controls, servos, bodies, and tuning option parts.

For every person on here talking about how hard ESC's are to program to run boosted, there is at least 1 thread on this same forum dedicated to tuning them.

For every person on here talking about how drivers set their cars up better when they run blinky, I would like to see race results from the event where a boosted driver won solely on horsepower.

For every person talking about how they don't want to have to cart a laptop to the track, there must have been 200 drivers at the IIC running boosted if only the boosted guys bring computers to the race, if event pictures can be trusted.


You want to really save onroad? Get out of this false mentality that racing is fair.

I've been racing far too long [not just RC] to believe the BS that unless everyone is slowed down, victory, or even just a good finish is outside your grasp. For every person spending their way to the front, there's another working harder on their setup and putting laps on their car to LEARN how to get to the front, while spending LESS money SMARTER.

Are electric racers really such prima-donna's that tuning the power plant AND the car is too complicated? Doesn't seem to affect the nitro guys much, nobody there is screaming to mandate locked carb needles.


While I will fight to race Boosted, whenever, wherever I can, for as long as I can, I have, and will continue to suggest newcomers start in Blinky. Touring cars are complicated, and setup will always been a huge portion of The Complete Package, and learning how to gear properly can be difficult enough without throwing in ESC tuning on top of that. There's only so many things you can experiment with effectively in a day.

HOWEVER, RC racers are, by nature, tinkerers. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone that calls themselves anything higher than a novice racer would want any adjustment TAKEN AWAY.

In fact, I've brought in a new TC racer this season who's been running RCGT fairly well, and have 2 other buddies that are thinking of starting this winter, who I have also suggested start in a blinky class. They all WANT to race boosted when they feel they're ready, after watching a few local Boosted mains.

Blinky started as a way to get a slower class on the books that would let newer guys learn to tune their car. The natural progression everyone should strive to, IMO, is Mod. Blinky 13.5 is not an intermediate class to mod, and absolutely SUCKS as a Super Stock formula. Boosted 17.5 has the corner rip and throttle control required to almost get fully prepared for mod, while being around the same speed as Blinky 13.5.

The perception that "stock" racing is level and fair has never been true, and trying to regulate it into being true is about as effective as trying to get Congress to stop spending money like a teenager with their parent's credit card.

Bottom line is, until you figure out how to get The Complete Package for yourself, no amount of rule changes are going to get you to the top of the results.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: WE ARE RACING. By definition it is a contest of speed. When you combine competition and speed, people will always strive to get faster [hence all the "Which ESC/Motor/Battery is best for Blinky" threads]. If you want to race, figure out how to go fast. If you want something easy to drive, get a soapbox racer.
Well said

Bb
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:01 PM   #44
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All 12th scalers move to California

Problem solved
No , please come to Mississippi....there is no onroad racing in Mississippi!!!!!
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:12 PM   #45
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I got back into racing 12th recently and the new equipment is a pain. You need a laptop trackside to tune your esc and set timing on motors and external goodies for a 1s . Honestly it's a pain. I run the road racing program here and I just thumbed my nose at roar and boosted everything . We run 10.5 boosted with 1s. Solves a lot of needless hassle. Can't wait for spring to put this stuff away and run gas.
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