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Old 11-22-2011, 01:00 AM   #1
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Default Serpent S411 or TRF417

I have been looking at these two cars recently. The reason for this thread (and I am sure its a me too thread) is that I have experience with serpent products in the past on the nitro side. I used to race a S710. Their quality was great and I like the fact they are local to me.

However recently with the purchase of my TA06, I have realized that tamiya also makes great stuff. looking at images of the cars they both look great, however the TRF is much more expensive than the serpent. This makes me wonder. Is TRF417 a better car? (this is based on the idea that you get what you pay for). Or could the extra cost be attributed to import?

Either way, I am looking for a car that I can grow with into the more "refined" classes of the hobby/sport. I know my TA06 will only take me so far (RCGT) plus I would like to own and race a full race chassis.

Anyone with first hand experience is welcome to comment and share your insight. I have to say that I like how "clean" the serpent looks and I really like the spring steel parts. From experience these are great, strong.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:45 AM   #2
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Both are very good cars. Itīs more a personal decision. Perhaps Tamiya TRF parts are easier to find in Hong Kong webshops and cheaper (the kit is expensive but later parts are cheaper)...I am waiting 417X, is going to be at shops very soon!!!
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:30 AM   #3
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I have owned both. If you are VERY good at set up and into highly modifying car from kit form. Then the 417 is the kit to buy.

However if you want a good car right out of the box. I recomend the S411.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamison R View Post
I have owned both. If you are VERY good at set up and into highly modifying car from kit form. Then the 417 is the kit to buy.

However if you want a good car right out of the box. I recomend the S411.

Well I'm sure I have tons to learn in car setup, but have experience. It seems that with the TA06 I have to be very savy to make it work (from what I ave learned). Thank you for you input. It think that maybe if I buy a highend chassis I would want it to work after being setup without having to modify much or anything.

Out of the two cars which one do you like best?

Last edited by Profoxcg; 11-22-2011 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:36 AM   #5
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The Serpent out of those 2 cars. The TOP Photon is the best overall car I have ever owned. The Serpent is a very close second.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:06 AM   #6
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please let me know, if serpent and xray are made by the same company, as thats what i was told, true of false, thanks
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:29 AM   #7
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please let me know, if serpent and xray are made by the same company, as thats what i was told, true of false, thanks
No, that's incorrect information.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:36 AM   #8
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I used to think the same. especially since serpent had the "xray / hudy" spring steel parts. What is up with that or how does that work?

BTW I think I am leaning toward the snake
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:52 AM   #9
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Something to consider on the Serpent, is that a lot of people are switching away from the stock 2.5mm chassis... to the 2.25mm, to create a car with more torsional flex and greater mechanical grip.

If you factor in the price of a new chassis, the 411 and 417 are priced almost identically. Spare parts for each car are pretty even too.

Personally, as long as spare parts are roughly similar in price, I wouldn't let +/- $100 in the initial price of the kit deter you. The actual up front cost of the kit is not that much considering what it costs to race competitively for a couple seasons in touring car.

Buy whatever kit is raced the most at your local track. You are, admittedly, not very experienced with chassis setup. Having local fast guys to bounce ideas off and share setup notes with will not only make you faster, but it will add to the fun of the hobby. Being the lone wolf with some chassis that no one else races is only fun if you are coming in 1st every week.

My $.02
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:20 PM   #10
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I have both cars... the 417 is pretty much allocated for Tamiya TCS racing now. I am VERY impressed with the Serpent car. I typically race the 17.5 boosted indoor and 13.5 boosted outdoor classes. I even ran a little open mod with the car this past summer and was impressed.

Standouts for me are:

1) Durable. I have yet to replace a part even after a few "WOW" hits with the boards. I am sure that I will break things on this car - however, the durability seems to be great! I love that it doesn't chew-up and spit out knuckles like the 416/7 likes to. Durability - edge S411

2) The shocks are some of the easiest that I have ever built. Comparing them to the TRF shocks is a little unfair as I believe the TRF's are the best in the business... however, the Serpent shocks are very-very close in smoothness. From an ease of rebuilding, I even give the edge to the S411 shocks.

3) Parts support. The advantage here is clearly with the Tamiya car - however, the 416/7 platform has been around for a couple years so it's established. Serpent has launched a car in what I believe to be the start of the return of the TC era - and with the favorable comments that people are posting about the S411, there is not doubt that parts support locally is going to improve once hobby shops are asked to carry the parts by the customers that realize how really good the car is.

4) Adjustability - tie. Both cars are responsive to changes... I race on medium traction (sometimes med-high) and I have both the 2.5 and 2.25 chassis' I switched back to the 2.5 chassis as I found that it was a little more consistent. I do run the one-piece motor mount and with that I can run only four screws on the rear bulkhead which does help with the flex.

Overall - I give an edge to the S411 from my own experience with both cars.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:10 PM   #11
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Don't forget with 417 you have to buy titanium turnbuckles because the kit comes with alum (serpent is spring steel). Also you will need steel front CVDs but those are cheap.

RCMarket sells the S411 with the 2.25mm chassis version. All other HK shops sell with 2.50mm chassis.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Something to consider on the Serpent, is that a lot of people are switching away from the stock 2.5mm chassis... to the 2.25mm, to create a car with more torsional flex and greater mechanical grip.

If you factor in the price of a new chassis, the 411 and 417 are priced almost identically. Spare parts for each car are pretty even too.

Personally, as long as spare parts are roughly similar in price, I wouldn't let +/- $100 in the initial price of the kit deter you. The actual up front cost of the kit is not that much considering what it costs to race competitively for a couple seasons in touring car.

Buy whatever kit is raced the most at your local track. You are, admittedly, not very experienced with chassis setup. Having local fast guys to bounce ideas off and share setup notes with will not only make you faster, but it will add to the fun of the hobby. Being the lone wolf with some chassis that no one else races is only fun if you are coming in 1st every week.

My $.02

Thanks for the advice. I am not a newb setting up cars, ,maybe not a pro, but not a newb. Can I setup MY car, yes. I just did not want to sound overconfident originally. But thanks for the $.02

Is there kits with the 2.5mm chassis?
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #13
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I have read several vs threads, 417x vs t3 2012, t3 2012 vs s411 etc, etc, Everyone has a different opinion, listen to the guys that have owned both or have driven both cars, I have never owned the serpent, but after reading several threads, I am going to place an order for the car, I already ordered the 417x, so will see which is better my self and sell the other one, I wish i could also own the xray and the tc6, but can only afford the two right now, I hope the serpent is all that everyone says it is
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:02 PM   #14
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yeah I cannot afford both S411 and TRF417.. but let us know which one you like best and why.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:48 PM   #15
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Would the 2.25 chassis be better for the indoor carpet vta class?
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