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Old 11-21-2011, 03:20 PM   #46
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At big events or very tight club level competition people are pushing motors to the point of new rotor every run to win with blinky. Not wise and I don't do it but others are and it is blowing the costs of racing out.
I've been to a few big races myself. I see few gearing till their motors thermal. There is a sweet spot for motors. Going beyond those limits aren't always rewarding.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:59 PM   #47
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I fully understand the tech. I was on of the early adopters of boost. I ran it for almost 3 years. I had the tekin when it was a dog and not competitive. I also have experience in programming.

Not all ESCs are good at boost. Some are far more superior than others. Making stock sedan open ESC will give the companies extra incentive to invest in better boost programming. It will also force people to buy the best boost ESCs. Just think of their sales if they show up to a race, with new software, and their ESC is dominating. They would sell 30-100 ESCs that very day.

Regarding buying the hot ESC when at a big race. They won't always be available. Take when the black diamond first came out. Only a few had them and those few dominated. I've heard of other manufacturers holding back on software and only giving it to a select few.

Regarding the club level. I fully understand running what everyone else wants. I'm talking about big travel races.

I stand by my original statement.

If you did understand why timing had the effects it did then you would understand that there isnít going to be the best ESC of the month or software to go with it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:08 PM   #48
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I stand by my original statement.

If you did understand why timing had the effects it did then you would understand that there isn’t going to be the best ESC of the month or software to go with it.
You didn't prove anything. Explain to me why you think the programming will not advance?

The past advances had nothing to do with timing only when it was applied.

I think the next big advance will be boost ramping based off amp load.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:31 PM   #49
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At big events or very tight club level competition people are pushing motors to the point of new rotor every run to win with blinky. Not wise and I don't do it but others are and it is blowing the costs of racing out.
ONLY if YOU'RE the one doing it, otherwise the cost of racing isn't going up for you based on what they're doing. If you're not, all they're doing is stopping you from getting $10 worth of your entry fees back in the way of a bowling trophy. Is the win really worth that to you? Are you really, honestly in contention for the win?

If they want to spend $30+ each round for a win, each week, let 'em. There will always be people with more money than brains.

The guys I see winning each week spend the same as I do, practice more than I do, set their cars up better than I do, and run a better line than I do. At the end of the day, it's the singer, not the song.

If it wasn't rotors, or tires each round, it would be batteries or motors or leading lagging flapping bearing preload indicating washer tab rings, gweebo discs, prephase ingonculators, or oscillation overthrusters.

Boost has a place at some tracks, blinky has a place at some tracks.

If you don't race my class, you don't dictate my rules. I'll be glad to do the same for you. If we race the same class, we both get an equal vote with our wallets come time to pay for race registration....then the track owner gets to decide based on what keeps the doors open and the lights on.
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Last edited by Buckaroo; 11-21-2011 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #50
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Boosted or Blinky. Doesn't matter. If Joe deep pockets sees someone win at club level, it becomes his next must have electronics setup. He's going to buy that ESC he saw win, that motor, that battery, that chassis. Bob shallow pockets resents Joe deep pockets no matter what he owns, but works on becoming a better driver and tuner with what he has. He knows Joe is a failure to the hobby. Joe will always pay to win, but doesn't. Bob will always learn how to improve and use his gear to the best of his ability and win in spite of Mr. Deep Pockets.

As it stands, boosted can only push a motor so hard. Most software advances are toward smoothing out the power curve. Until we switch the number of poles in the motor, there is only so much more to do with an ESC.

In Blinky, what do we do, Crank the snot out of the timing and damage the motor if we aren't careful. In the long run, riskier than running boosted. If you go locked timing, we go back to buying a crate of motors to find the best one.

I run both. I prefer boosted. Yes the learning curve is a little longer, but it is worth it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #51
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Simple solution to all this, with the introduction of one rule:

2wd cars only. Like real touring cars.

If the cars still somehow get too fast (not sure how, but just in case), we introduce one additional rule:

The control tyre for next year will be one compound harder than it was this year.


Control the grip and all these power issues go away. Look at how well 2wd buggy racing is doing...
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:07 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
ONLY if YOU'RE the one doing it, otherwise the cost of racing isn't going up for you based on what they're doing. If you're not, all they're doing is stopping you from getting $10 worth of your entry fees back in the way of a bowling trophy. Is the win really worth that to you? Are you really, honestly in contention for the win?

If they want to spend $30+ each round for a win, each week, let 'em. There will always be people with more money than brains.

The guys I see winning each week spend the same as I do, practice more than I do, set their cars up better than I do, and run a better line than I do. At the end of the day, it's the singer, not the song.

If it wasn't rotors, or tires each round, it would be batteries or motors or leading lagging flapping bearing preload indicating washer tab rings, gweebo discs, prephase ingonculators, or oscillation overthrusters.

Boost has a place at some tracks, blinky has a place at some tracks.

If you don't race my class, you don't dictate my rules. I'll be glad to do the same for you. If we race the same class, we both get an equal vote with our wallets come time to pay for race registration....then the track owner gets to decide based on what keeps the doors open and the lights on.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Boosted or Blinky. Doesn't matter. If Joe deep pockets sees someone win at club level, it becomes his next must have electronics setup. He's going to buy that ESC he saw win, that motor, that battery, that chassis. Bob shallow pockets resents Joe deep pockets no matter what he owns, but works on becoming a better driver and tuner with what he has. He knows Joe is a failure to the hobby. Joe will always pay to win, but doesn't. Bob will always learn how to improve and use his gear to the best of his ability and win in spite of Mr. Deep Pockets.

As it stands, boosted can only push a motor so hard. Most software advances are toward smoothing out the power curve. Until we switch the number of poles in the motor, there is only so much more to do with an ESC.

In Blinky, what do we do, Crank the snot out of the timing and damage the motor if we aren't careful. In the long run, riskier than running boosted. If you go locked timing, we go back to buying a crate of motors to find the best one.

I run both. I prefer boosted. Yes the learning curve is a little longer, but it is worth it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:01 PM   #54
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Boosted or Blinky. Doesn't matter. If Joe deep pockets sees someone win at club level, it becomes his next must have electronics setup. He's going to buy that ESC he saw win, that motor, that battery, that chassis. Bob shallow pockets resents Joe deep pockets no matter what he owns, but works on becoming a better driver and tuner with what he has. He knows Joe is a failure to the hobby. Joe will always pay to win, but doesn't. Bob will always learn how to improve and use his gear to the best of his ability and win in spite of Mr. Deep Pockets.

As it stands, boosted can only push a motor so hard. Most software advances are toward smoothing out the power curve. Until we switch the number of poles in the motor, there is only so much more to do with an ESC.

In Blinky, what do we do, Crank the snot out of the timing and damage the motor if we aren't careful. In the long run, riskier than running boosted. If you go locked timing, we go back to buying a crate of motors to find the best one.

I run both. I prefer boosted. Yes the learning curve is a little longer, but it is worth it.
Exactly.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:05 PM   #55
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You didn't prove anything. Explain to me why you think the programming will not advance?

The past advances had nothing to do with timing only when it was applied.

I think the next big advance will be boost ramping based off amp load.

I suggest you think about why increasing the timing actually boost performance.

But even if you don't understand the technology at this point dynamic timing is well established and has remained stable for at least 2 years (even longer with some manufactures).

We have the capability to get the best out of the motors as it is with the only change being small incremental improvements to feel.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:36 PM   #56
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ONLY if YOU'RE the one doing it, otherwise the cost of racing isn't going up for you based on what they're doing. If you're not, all they're doing is stopping you from getting $10 worth of your entry fees back in the way of a bowling trophy. Is the win really worth that to you? Are you really, honestly in contention for the win?
So true but this is racing we do race to win or at least try to that is part of the fun. I wouldn't and don't bother burning cash for club days but when I go to a big event I do go with the intention of trying to win.


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If it wasn't rotors, or tires each round, it would be batteries or motors or leading lagging flapping bearing preload indicating washer tab rings, gweebo discs, prephase ingonculators, or oscillation overthrusters.
Exactly why there are extra controls such as control tyres at big events to provide a level playing field and keep costs down.


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Boost has a place at some tracks, blinky has a place at some tracks.
Dynamic timing is track independent, if you want to go slower or faster you can just use a different turn motor. This argument isn't about speed it is about technolgy. I've run both and would run both but I preffer boosted.


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If you don't race my class, you don't dictate my rules. I'll be glad to do the same for you. If we race the same class, we both get an equal vote with our wallets come time to pay for race registration....then the track owner gets to decide based on what keeps the doors open and the lights on.
And what are you rules doing to your class where blinky ESC is required. Where they are running blinky locally what I see is people are spending a lot more $$$ less experienced racers are disgruntaled and the numbers are falling.

Also remember this isn't about you or me it is about the medium to long term future of on road electric racing and how we choose to go forward.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
ONLY if YOU'RE the one doing it, otherwise the cost of racing isn't going up for you based on what they're doing. If you're not, all they're doing is stopping you from getting $10 worth of your entry fees back in the way of a bowling trophy. Is the win really worth that to you? Are you really, honestly in contention for the win?

If they want to spend $30+ each round for a win, each week, let 'em. There will always be people with more money than brains.

The guys I see winning each week spend the same as I do, practice more than I do, set their cars up better than I do, and run a better line than I do. At the end of the day, it's the singer, not the song.

If it wasn't rotors, or tires each round, it would be batteries or motors or leading lagging flapping bearing preload indicating washer tab rings, gweebo discs, prephase ingonculators, or oscillation overthrusters.

Boost has a place at some tracks, blinky has a place at some tracks.

If you don't race my class, you don't dictate my rules. I'll be glad to do the same for you. If we race the same class, we both get an equal vote with our wallets come time to pay for race registration....then the track owner gets to decide based on what keeps the doors open and the lights on.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:44 AM   #58
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Perhaps they need to tighten it up?


Please race official, that board jumped out at me, I demand an extra lap for the special apexes I tried to find....
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:17 AM   #59
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Boost or blinky it doesn't matter like many on here already have said the fast guys are always going to be the fast guys reguardless. Stock classes should be blinky like they are and superstock should be boosted as it is. I'm still not sure why these discusions keep coming up ? Personaly I feel if your track has a majority that goes to big races you should run those classes if your track doesnt then decide on your own rules. These threads are getting real old every few months one starts and it doesn't change anything. Instead of starting a new thread look back a few pages and you'll find the same oppinions as in this one.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:37 AM   #60
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I'm still not sure why these discusions keep coming up ?
Maybe because there are a number of people who aren't honest or mature enough to admit that their crappy driving or half assed program is the issue, not their equipment or the rules or blinky or whatever else they can dream up as an excuse for why they aren't winning.
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