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Old 11-18-2011, 07:24 PM   #1
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Default 1S and 2S Parity in Pan Car Racing

We have a WGT class that runs 1S boosted 10.5 at our track, and it is a growing class. Some people are put off by the 1S operation though, occasionally we get others who have other ESCs already, and some who have cars that are made for 2S (or the old 6 cell format). There is a possibility people with F1s might want to race with GT bodies in the future too.

I'd like to be able to let these people run with just a change of motor.

So, does anybody know what motor with 2S would be equivalent to 10.5 1S? Does anyone have any experience with it?
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:13 PM   #2
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We have a WGT class that runs 1S boosted 10.5 at our track, and it is a growing class. Some people are put off by the 1S operation though, occasionally we get others who have other ESCs already, and some who have cars that are made for 2S (or the old 6 cell format). There is a possibility people with F1s might want to race with GT bodies in the future too.

I'd like to be able to let these people run with just a change of motor.

So, does anybody know what motor with 2S would be equivalent to 10.5 1S? Does anyone have any experience with it?
2 cell 17.5 will run with the 10.5 1 cell. The 2 cell should be a bit quicker with proper set-up. (this is on oval)
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:16 PM   #3
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We have a WGT class that runs 1S boosted 10.5 at our track, and it is a growing class. Some people are put off by the 1S operation though, occasionally we get others who have other ESCs already, and some who have cars that are made for 2S (or the old 6 cell format). There is a possibility people with F1s might want to race with GT bodies in the future too.

I'd like to be able to let these people run with just a change of motor.

So, does anybody know what motor with 2S would be equivalent to 10.5 1S? Does anyone have any experience with it?
Probably a 17.5. We tried to do what you're suggesting at one track I used to race at and it killed the class in short order.

Where I race now we adhere to the WGT rules and it is now one of our largest class and growing. The thing that people like is that it is well defined and has plenty of variation built in. Everyone runs a 13.5 and there is vry little difference between boosted and non-boosted on a 70" x35' track with no long straight. It's all corner speed and driving. We have most brands of ESC represented and motors all are capable of winning or losing. The biggest rule we enforce are the bodies, no flame jobs or wild paint schemes, just racing style livery.
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:37 AM   #4
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I was hoping to find that 2S 17.5 was a little slower than 1S 10.5. I'd prefer to encourage people to go the right way, but I don't want to have to turn people away or force them to buy new ESCs etc. What about non-boosted 2S 17.5? Could that be the right match for 1S boosted 10.5?
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:00 AM   #5
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I was hoping to find that 2S 17.5 was a little slower than 1S 10.5. I'd prefer to encourage people to go the right way, but I don't want to have to turn people away or force them to buy new ESCs etc. What about non-boosted 2S 17.5? Could that be the right match for 1S boosted 10.5?
What are the dimensions of the track? At our track boosted and blinky are within tenths of a second of each other. If you have a really long straight, that is where boost has enough room to be an advantage. It still takes clean driving. I'd let them run 17.5 2S this season, but let them know you're adhering to the rules next season.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:00 AM   #6
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We run both combinations around here - 1S + 10.5T and 2S + 10.5T with boosted speedos. Results from last race:

1. 2S
2. 2S
3. 1S
4. 1S
5. 2S
6. 2S
7. 2S
8. 1S
9. 2S
10. 2S

There was a close fight for places 2-4 between 2 cars with 1S and 1 car with 2S, only the last round determinded the final podium layout. Both combinations can be run in the same class without any problems, it's impossible to tell which car is running which battery. There will be offcourse some advantage to one of the combinations depending on track layout.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:48 AM   #7
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in the UK we have recently changed the rules to bring the 1s 10.5 and 2s 17.5 cars closer together. Currently the 2s cars out power the 1s cars by quite a bit. We have raised the weight limit of the 2s cars to 1150gms. We are yet to see if it work but it should bring the performance back to a level playing field!!
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:09 AM   #8
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This is like when brushless was starting and everyone was trying to find parity between brushed and brushless; did'nt happen. As mentioned some small track layouts will get close but I've tried 1s 10.5 against 2s 13.5 and 17.5 and was always underpowered.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:03 PM   #9
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There will be offcourse some advantage to one of the combinations depending on track layout.
And therein lies the problem(IMO).

Each combo will have advantages on differing tracks. On a big flowing, wide open track the 2S/17.5 cars will probably turn quicker laps. On a tighter, more technical track without a lot of room to open the car up the 1S/10.5 cars will probably turn quicker laps.

Thus, by definition, parity cannot be achieved if the track layouts/surfaces/venues change from race to race. If you really wanted to win, you would have 2S and 1S lipos and 17.5 and 10.5 motors ready to drop in depending on the track layout.

Im not saying anyone is doing that now... but as soon as someone with deep pockets comes along and buys 2 chassis and builds one as 17.5/2S and the other as 10.5/1S, everyone else is at a disadvantage. That is the kind of thing that kills classes.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:49 PM   #10
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In order to attain power parity, a non-boosted 10.5 1s would have very slightly more power than a boosted 21.5 on 2s. My reasoning is such: a doubling of the voltage going to the motor results in a 4x increase in actual power going through it, twice the voltage AND twice the amps (V=IR stuff, i went to school for this shit) BUT a 21.5 motor would (ideally) have 4X the internal resistance of a 10.5 (internal winding wire is twice as long and half as thick, therefore 4X increase in resistance), its not an exact science but I think it would come out pretty close. This assumes all else is equal, car and battery weight, driver, and so forth, but it could be a basis for making class rules.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:40 PM   #11
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What are the dimensions of the track? At our track boosted and blinky are within tenths of a second of each other. If you have a really long straight, that is where boost has enough room to be an advantage. It still takes clean driving. I'd let them run 17.5 2S this season, but let them know you're adhering to the rules next season.
There are 2 local tracks. One is a 30 m x 15 m indoor astroturf track, the other is 50 m x 35 m outdoor asphalt. I need a solution that somewhat works for both. You can see the problem.

I don't need a perfect solution though. The idea is to encourage everyone to run the standard WGT format, but I want a temporary solution for someone who usually runs F1 somewhere else say. I want to be able to say to them. You usually run Stock? Ok, go to zero boost and put a GT body on and that will be cool with everyone.

Maybe 21.5?
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:52 AM   #12
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Here in Holland we drive the WGT in both configurations at the same race.
1S with 10.5 and 2S with 17.5.
Both boosted.
Mostly they drive indoor and the tracks are more for clean driving then for speed.
It is a tie on who wins.

regards Roy
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