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Old 11-16-2011, 09:49 PM   #151
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Below are attached pictures of my Schumacher Mi4CX with the layout I ran in it at the 2011 Reedy On Road Race at Norcal.

(that should be easy to understand)

in this current configuration is the car "Roar" legal under this new rules

(that should also be easy to understand)

after viewing the pictures, a simple yes or no will do if you chose to respond. if you are a "roar" offical and respond please state that.

(Also easy to understand)
Attached Thumbnails
ROAR Rule 8.2.3 regarding shorty packs-51311-005.jpg   ROAR Rule 8.2.3 regarding shorty packs-51311-007.jpg  
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:53 PM   #152
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I am sorry, I do not understand. Can you help me understand? I really do want to understand!

Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
Below are attached pictures of my Schumacher Mi4CX with the layout I ran in it at the 2011 Reedy On Road Race at Norcal.

(that should be easy to understand)

in this current configuration is the car "Roar" legal under this new rules

(that should also be easy to understand)

after viewing the pictures, a simple yes or no will do if you chose to respond. if you are a "roar" offical and respond please state that.

(Also easy to understand)
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:57 PM   #153
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Steve, don't make me track you down and talk to you about stuff that doesn't include 1/12 scales...
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:13 PM   #154
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There is not mention of a grandfather rule........

And while some NIMH packs were a challenge, I could easily within the rules rip out my dremel to gain some clearance.

And no, I am not mad at ROAR for the sake of it. I just find it a stupid rule that hampers advancement..........on top of making some cars illegal, forcing people to spend MORE money.


Later EddieO



Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Has anyone said that cars designed 5 years ago would not be considered for grandfathering in, IF it was a problem? You do realize it was hard to get big NiMh packs in there at the end right?

Or do you just want to be mad at ROAR?
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:21 PM   #155
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I ignored most of the posts and just glanced at a few before making my post above, then I went back read the stuff on the facebook pdf, and read the following from Roar...

This rule changes nothing. It simply prevents developments in
chassis design that require a smaller battery, limiting the racer to
ONE size of battery that is non-standard. It's to protect the racer
against getting stuck with having a car that will only fit ONE size
and brand of battery.
Saturday at 10:57am Like
Brent Thielke

So now I'm thinking let me get this straight in my head...

I travel to the hobby shop, I see a chassis, say the losi 22, I say, hey mister, I wanna buy one of those cars, he says ok, I take it home and find out the lipo i have won't fit.... don't I just take the car back and say WTF mister, gimme my money back, or hey I need a lipo for this thing.

I need "protecting" from that no seriously....

and of course thats if I know nothing (very little) about RC cars and can't read the outside of a box before I buy it.

(your on line purchase may vary in the above)


roar member # 11-93357 expired 10-20-2011

renewed?????? guess that depends on where roar paved nats are and if the GF doesn't try and "protect" me from spending a bunch of money to go
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:51 PM   #156
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In 3-5 years, we could have batteries the size of an ESC capable of powering our cars.

Smaller batteries with higher energy density WILL happen, the whole world is working on that to improve consumer electronics and electric cars, among other things. This will certainly lead to a paradigm shift in RC chassis design.

Standards are a good thing for consumers and racers. Making a car that requires anything proprietary alienates consumers, and further complicates a hobby that's already way too difficult for the average person to understand. This absolutely should apply to battery sizes. We should focus on creating as much interoperability between components from different manufacturers as possible.* The barriers to entry are already enough scare most people away.











* Examples:

1. Imagine how nice it would be if you could use any 2.4Ghz receiver with any 2.4Ghz radio. Instead, every company uses a proprietary system that means changing to a new brand of radio requires you to buy all new receivers. Some companies don't even make their new modules backward compatible with their older equipment.

2. What if there wasn't a standard for signaling of servos and ESC's. You'd have to buy models designed to work with your brand of radio, kind of like you have to do with receivers already.

3. Aren't you glad everybody (but GM) standardized on the same kind of connectors for sensor wires on ESC's and motors? Wouldn't it be awesome if everybody used their own design?

4. Why couldn't battery companies all agree on the same kind of balance connector? That's confusing as hell.

5. Remember when you could use any spur gear on any car? Those were the days.

6. Etc. You get the point.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:11 AM   #157
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An answer to allow any new car would be for manufacturers to supply their cars without any battery fixing hardware or battery moulding location incorporated into it if they wanted the end user to fit any size battery into it.

How can you "illegal stamp" something that does not have a battery size incorporated within the build?

get your dremel out guys!

Sometimes you gotta think "out of the box"

no pun intended.... honest

OK, so the idea is probably flawed, but hey... I tried.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:19 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
This rule changes nothing. It simply prevents developments in
chassis design that require a smaller battery, limiting the racer to
ONE size of battery that is non-standard. It's to protect the racer
against getting stuck with having a car that will only fit ONE size
and brand of battery.
Saturday at 10:57am Like
Brent Thielke
This might have been the intent of the rule, but its actual workings will be far from that once the rule nazi's get their hands on it. And if this was the intent, there are far better mechanisms to achieve this goal than this stupid rule.

Simply specifying a minimum dimensions for a pack and that each 1/2 of a saddle pack must have the same dimensions as the other and that the packs need to be square or rectangular in shape achieves the goal of no crazy T pack designs without the need to fit the common brick size pack into a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Standards are a good thing for consumers and racers. Making a car that requires anything proprietary alienates consumers, and further complicates a hobby that's already way too difficult for the average person to understand. This absolutely should apply to battery sizes. We should focus on creating as much interoperability between components from different manufacturers as possible.* The barriers to entry are already enough scare most people away.
Agreed, but using a standard that is 30 years old is also a bad thing. its not that the shorty packs are being banned, but that you have to be able to fit a brick in your car, which is just really dumb, and pretty much pointless.

If the brick is your standard, make it so shorty packs are banned, not allow the use of shorty on the proviso that you can fit a brick in there. There is really no other conclusion to make other than this rule is half arsed in everything that it is meant to achieve.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:28 AM   #159
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This rule as written doesn't stop cars being designed for funky shape batteries. There is nothing in the rule that says the full-size pack has to fit in the same location as the pack being used.

As long as there's room to tape a full-size pack to the front bumper or top-deck, or hanging off the side of the chassis, then the car is legal.

The rule is so vague and unclear it's useless.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:29 AM   #160
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+1.

The middle ground of a rule always allows it to be flawed... lol.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:06 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
This rule as written doesn't stop cars being designed for funky shape batteries. There is nothing in the rule that says the full-size pack has to fit in the same location as the pack being used.

As long as there's room to tape a full-size pack to the front bumper or top-deck, or hanging off the side of the chassis, then the car is legal.

The rule is so vague and unclear it's useless.
Good point...

I think the spirit of the rule is similar to the requirement of using 540 sized motors. So cars need to be designed around a motor of that size...and now a battery of a particular size. The difficulty for ROAR is how do you legislate technology in a fashion that allows advances but does not stunt the growth of the hobby...?

I hear it all the time when a new car comes out..."it looks just like an Xray/Tamiya" etc, etc. People like something new (when it actually works). Shorty packs may not be the only catalyst in new chassis design, but when I saw them come out I was excited about the possibilities. Just sayin...
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:45 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
There is not mention of a grandfather rule........

And while some NIMH packs were a challenge, I could easily within the rules rip out my dremel to gain some clearance.

And no, I am not mad at ROAR for the sake of it. I just find it a stupid rule that hampers advancement..........on top of making some cars illegal, forcing people to spend MORE money.


Later EddieO
Yeah because at the ROAR secret hideout, the evil rules writers sit twirling their mustaches trying to figure out how they can hamper advancement, freedom, the American way, etc....


Then the tech robots will go forward, seeking out all outdated chassis with their calipers shouting "exterminate, exterminate"



This is the end times!!
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:48 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Yeah because at the ROAR secret hideout, the evil rules writers sit twirling their mustaches trying to figure out how they can hamper advancement, freedom, the American way, etc....


Then the tech robots will go forward, seeking out all outdated chassis with their calipers shouting "exterminate, exterminate"



This is the end times!!
At least someone publicly admitted it! Where exactly is ROAR's Evil Lair?
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:11 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
At least someone publicly admitted it! Where exactly is ROAR's Evil Lair?


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Old 11-17-2011, 11:21 AM   #165
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This rule is ridiculous. The reasoning for the rule suggests that we should have never changed the rules to accept brushless motors or lipo batteries. We might as well have continued to use nicd batteries and brushless motors and lived in the stone age instead of allowing technology which has made the hobby better for the racers and less expensive. Now racers don't have to rebuild their motors every few runs or cycle batteries. Maybe Roar should have protected us from the evil brushless and lipo technology.

As a racing organization Roar should support advancements made in the sport and allow designers to continue to develop better cars in order to push the limits of the hobby. As someone who is personally in the process of designing a touring car conversion kit designed specifically with the shorty lipos in mind im very frustrated with this new rule. Now my conversion kit most likely wont be able to be marketed to the general public but I plan running one at non- roar sanctioned events.

I am a strong believer in creativity and developing r/c cars which continue to gain performance. With this newest rule say good bye to any hope that we had of companies trying new designs and thinking out of the box and say hello to the dominance of cookie cutter cars continueing.
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