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Old 11-16-2011, 05:31 PM   #136
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Racecrafter, you are correct about ROARS ruling. I see your point.

However, having said that; whether ROAR intended to or not, by this rule they have effectively stifled any new concepts in chassis layout/design; because if I understand this correctly, all cars have to still make room for conventional size batteries to fit; which means that we are right back where we started with what I said about chassis layout/design being stagnant; because ROAR and others insist on keeping the status quo with regards to the size and configuration of batteries and motors, thus eliminating any meaningful change to car design.

Perhaps the rule needs some serious tweaking.
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #137
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Racecrafter, you are correct about ROARS ruling. I see your point.

However, having said that; whether ROAR intended to or not, by this rule they have effectively stifled any new concepts in chassis layout/design; because if I understand this correctly, all cars have to still make room for conventional size batteries to fit; which means that we are right back where we started with what I said about chassis layout/design being stagnant; because ROAR and others insist on keeping the status quo with regards to the size and configuration of batteries and motors, thus eliminating any meaningful change to car design.

Perhaps the rule needs some serious tweaking.
That's exactally what I said several pages ago. ROAR has slammed the door on innovation, and shown that they have no interest or desire to lead as opposed to react.....again.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:57 PM   #138
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ROAR = Clownshoes

I thought after almost getting killed because of roar's decision to not call the Last round of qualifying at the Onroad nats was a dumb decision. You know the one where we warned them to call the race as lightning was crashing down within yards of the track and they made us stay on the stand and attempt to finish the mod runs. And thus causing thousands of dollars of equipment damage of peoples stuff to all to have to rerun mod in the morning anyways? Yeah that one.

Roar is not looking out for anyone best interests. They constantly make dumb uninformed decisions and shoot from the hip.

This is just another in the long line of hey why not's in ROAR's storied past.

Reactionary stupidity at its finest. Quite an organization.

EA was probably the best thing that happened to ROAR in the last 5 years and they kicked him out because he had an opinion. That right there should speak volumes for the organization as a whole.
What about this rule is going to cause you a problem.. oh yeah exactly ZERO. Every car out there right now is legal. As far as the fleet of JRXS cars we will all be assured to see at the nationals, I can't imagine they are going to turn away people with cars designed 5-6 years ago when lipos were not even legal.

Unless you've investing in bringing out a car that only takes hockey puck shaped batteries you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:01 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Racecrafter View Post
In just skimming over the last 20 or so posts here I can see that most of you (nearly all) have missed the point of this rule.

The rule is about the "car" not so much the battery.

"If a car/chassis cannot fit a battery of the maximum dimensions (per the ROAR rules) it is deemed illegal for ROAR sanctioned events."

You can run any ROAR approved battery as long as it fits the rules for that class of course.

What I see is that it quashes any attempt for XYZ manufacturer to monopolize their chassis to run THEIR battery only. (i.e. a T shaped battery or something along those lines)
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:03 PM   #140
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What about this rule is going to cause you a problem.. oh yeah exactly ZERO. Every car out there right now is legal. As far as the fleet of JRXS cars we will all be assured to see at the nationals, I can't imagine they are going to turn away people with cars designed 5-6 years ago when lipos were not even legal.

Unless you've investing in bringing out a car that only takes hockey puck shaped batteries you have nothing to worry about.
This car would be illegal with the new rules. Its innovation like this that got us to where TC's and such are today. Designers being able to think out side the box. Now they are all stuck using the same box again.

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Old 11-16-2011, 08:38 PM   #141
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Cool car, sure looks like a losi using an excelrion pack.......(denote sarcasm). Kinda throws the arguement out the window. In this case the car was designed around a readily available pack, which was made by another company....yet its now made illegal.

The JRXS is still a very competitive car. Regardless of people showing up to nats with it......all it takes is ONE guy to show up and get told his car is illegal....how much money did he just waste?

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Old 11-16-2011, 09:00 PM   #142
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Lipo are going to continue to get smaller and have more capacity, then some other technology will come along which is smaller and lighter again, but we will still be stuck in the dark ages using brick size packs with a max of 6000mha and run in 5 min races.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
However, basic chassis layout and overall car design hasn't changed very much at all in 30 years. There have been improvements in chassis material and suspension design, etc. but overall the car design is still pretty much the same. Stagnant!! Why? because as I stated in an earlier post: the two main components that dictate overall chassis layout are the motor and battery pack. they are the biggest and heaviest components on the car. Change their size and weight and we begin to free things up in chassis design. All I'm saying is that I think we are way overdue for some fresh ideas and design concepts with regards to rc cars. Smaller, more compact and lighter lipo battery configurations and smaller can size motors that produce the same power as current 540 can motors will allow designers the freedom to change chassis design to move rc cars into the 21st century. That is why I'm against ROARs' kneejerk reactionary ruling concerning the "shorty" packs and which cars and which configurations they are allowed in.

Someone pointed out on this thread that the "lifers" are the ones who stick with the rc racing and like/enjoy the technology and advancements. They would likely embrace new ideas and concepts in chassis design. Myself and many others go on forums like this nearly every day looking to see what new cars or parts are coming from the manufacturers, we want to see new things, fresh ideas, etc. In F1 rc racing 3 Racing just released the FGX which is 2wd and has independent rear suspension. Very scale looking! That car is selling out everywhere! Why? Not necessarily because it is better than the Tamiya F1 car or even 3 Racings other more conventional car the F109; but rather because it is different, it is fresh, it is more scale realistic. Whether it will prove to be as fast as the other conventional F1 cars is yet to be seen; it is just too new yet, and it does have a couple of flaws. But that really doesn't matter at this point. We like to see fresh ideas, and we will generally spend our money on them.

Calandras' new 1/12 car that uses the "shorty" pack is going to be popular. Is it better than all the rest? I don't know, maybe. But it is at least a little different and points the way for car designers hopefully starting to "think outside the box" and try more new chassis design ideas.

I think in the long run, change will be good for this hobby/sport. We shouldn't try to stunt it.
Maybe you should read a bit more and post less, on post 80 in this very thread Team CRC=Frank Calandra himself says his car is legal in all configurations.

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Old 11-16-2011, 09:14 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by RogerDaShrubber View Post
Lipo are going to continue to get smaller and have more capacity, then some other technology will come along which is smaller and lighter again, but we will still be stuck in the dark ages using brick size packs with a max of 6000mha and run in 5 min races.
I hear there is a classs where the lipo packs are half the size, the races last 8 minuntes, and all the cars are legal with these small lipos
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:15 PM   #145
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This is when Team Magic E4 Come into place.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:16 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by RogerDaShrubber View Post
Lipo are going to continue to get smaller and have more capacity, then some other technology will come along which is smaller and lighter again, but we will still be stuck in the dark ages using brick size packs with a max of 6000mha and run in 5 min races.
And then there will be new rules. Roar rules are not "LAWS" as such and they can always been changed and added to as needed. It's happened in the past and my guess it will happen in the future.

As a racer whose been doing this for 30 years, Roar is probably more Pro-active now then in the past, and no that does not mean that I agree with every decision but this is hardly worth getting all bent out of shape about like a few appear to be.

Steve
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:23 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
This car would be illegal with the new rules. Its innovation like this that got us to where TC's and such are today. Designers being able to think out side the box. Now they are all stuck using the same box again.

EA
Yes it would. That car is what this rule is trying to avoid.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:29 PM   #148
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Cool car, sure looks like a losi using an excelrion pack.......(denote sarcasm). Kinda throws the arguement out the window. In this case the car was designed around a readily available pack, which was made by another company....yet its now made illegal.

The JRXS is still a very competitive car. Regardless of people showing up to nats with it......all it takes is ONE guy to show up and get told his car is illegal....how much money did he just waste?

Later EddieO
Has anyone said that cars designed 5 years ago would not be considered for grandfathering in, IF it was a problem? You do realize it was hard to get big NiMh packs in there at the end right?

Or do you just want to be mad at ROAR?
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:30 PM   #149
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This whole mentality of progress for progress' sake is disturbing to me. Why can we concentrate on the racing more than on new, new, new! As soon as every chassis has it's own special battery that allows for the most optimal layout then we are all going faster and we'll just end up making 17.5 class the 19.5 class.

More money for RC companies I guess, right? As long as Horizon, Great Planes, etc are able to push more product someone will be happy (maybe the top 1% of RC business people, hahaha). It won't grow the hobby to have cars that use bespoke battery packs. There is already a glut of battery types and connector styles clogging up hobby store shelves.

Although...if 1/12th and 1/10th cars could use the same 'shorty' then I would be all for battery size reform. Of course then 1/12 would have to go 2S...oh god, the worms- the can just exploded. And, I'd need to buy a new touring car, and new packs, ugh, getting expensive now.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:38 PM   #150
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This whole mentality of progress for progress' sake is disturbing to me. Why can we concentrate on the racing more than on new, new, new! As soon as every chassis has it's own special battery that allows for the most optimal layout then we are all going faster and we'll just end up making 17.5 class the 19.5 class.

More money for RC companies I guess, right? As long as Horizon, Great Planes, etc are able to push more product someone will be happy (maybe the top 1% of RC business people, hahaha). It won't grow the hobby to have cars that use bespoke battery packs. There is already a glut of battery types and connector styles clogging up hobby store shelves.

Although...if 1/12th and 1/10th cars could use the same 'shorty' then I would be all for battery size reform. Of course then 1/12 would have to go 2S...oh god, the worms- the can just exploded. And, I'd need to buy a new touring car, and new packs, ugh, getting expensive now.
I believe Sedan would opt-in on the 1s strategy before the faster cars batteried up more.

12th scale even has Roars' blessing to run boosted
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