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Old 11-30-2004, 05:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Pivot Ball users unite!

Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
I'm not going to go so far as to say a pillowball car connot handle as well as a c-hub car, but weight is definitely an issue if you are running carpet with foam tires (Roar weight is 1418 or so).

I'd be willing to bet that its impossible to get a pillowball car down to 1420 grams without major modifications to the pillowball system. Not to mention these changes would undermine its durability.

I use c-hub exclusively.
My car weighs 1lb 8oz static, no wheels, no batts and no motor. I have all the new light weight upgrades that are on the FK except the diff and rear bulkheads, which I can not find. And I replaced the stock pivot balls with the lighter hardened aluminum pivot balls. The electronics are Novak receiver and a GT7 esc. If it is any indication my car ready to run weighs less than an XXXS ready to run. This was from the guy that I beat in last weekends race by a lap. He picked them both up and was surprised that mine was a little lighter. As far as durability is concerned, in the two seasons I have raced, I have only replaced a drive shaft and a shock. I did switch to the short arms when they came out. Trust me, my Xray does not give away anything to ANY car at my track, pillow balls and all.
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Re: Pivot Ball users unite!

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Originally posted by Impulse_racer
My car weighs 1lb 8oz static, no wheels, no batts and no motor.
Whats it weigh RTR?

Quote:
Originally posted by Impulse_racer
I have all the new light weight upgrades that are on the FK except the diff and rear bulkheads, which I can not find.
How are you running front pillowballs with the FK front bulkheads?

Quote:
Originally posted by Impulse_racer
I did switch to the short arms when they came out. Trust me, my Xray does not give away anything to ANY car at my track, pillow balls and all.
This is interesting... how are you running the front pillowball setup with short arms? I thought the short arms were only setup for c-hub.
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartmen34
Yes, I'd also be interested in hearing what parts you are using. I was unaware they released a short pivot ball suspension kit.... ??
Yes they did. The original arms were part #302130, 320140(right,left) the newer parts are #302131, 302141. They introduced them with the wide offset steering blocks, part #302211,302221 when the EVO II was released. With the EVO II Xray began using the same axles and shocks front and rear, the original T1 did not.
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Pivot Ball users unite!

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Originally posted by JKA
Whats it weigh RTR?



How are you running front pillowballs with the FK front bulkheads?



This is interesting... how are you running the front pillowball setup with short arms? I thought the short arms were only setup for c-hub.
I gave the static weight because people run different wheels, tires, batteries, and motors. I honestly don't know the RTR weight.

I am not using the FK front bulkheads. I can use the rear ones though.

I posted an answer to your last question.
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Old 11-30-2004, 06:11 PM   #20
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Cool. I see now. Your short arms still mount on the inside of the bulkheads. I was confusing that with the FK short arms which mount on the outside of the bulkheads.
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Old 11-30-2004, 06:28 PM   #21
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c hubs r better

Last edited by pink pac man; 11-30-2004 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 11-30-2004, 06:38 PM   #22
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Hey!!!

I'm still using the PB suspension on my original T1 (the very first one). I agree on the convenience on changing of casters. No need to buy new caster blocks.

Regarding the PB suspension being too heavy, I haven't weighed it yet but I believe the a front PB assembly (arms, upright, axle) is still lighter to a C-hub assembly using the aluminum parts. Some people resort to aluminums to remedy the C-hub frailty (This only applies to drivers who still have issues with the barriers)

The PB suspension is harder to setup but it's a small price to pay to greater adjustibility possible. Just by moving clips, you can try out all possible caster without going out to buy a different block.

and my favorite part...

no more kingpins going loose on you.

impulse racer: thanks for the info re: the short arms. What else do I need to convert to the short arm?
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:55 PM   #23
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i heard tonight that to run it on carpet you cannot run size 28 tires u need to go to 26 or so
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:25 PM   #24
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Jeff, U can use offset shims over the wheel hex, to move the wheel out. By doing this you should be able to fit a 28mm tire in. If not you can file down the upright where it rubs.

Check out ashfordhobby.com for xray suspension parts.
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamjeff6
i heard tonight that to run it on carpet you cannot run size 28 tires u need to go to 26 or so
I run 28mm foam without spacers. Now 30mm do rub.

Last edited by Impulse_racer; 12-01-2004 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by rough512
Hey!!!

I'm still using the PB suspension on my original T1 (the very first one). I agree on the convenience on changing of casters. No need to buy new caster blocks.

Regarding the PB suspension being too heavy, I haven't weighed it yet but I believe the a front PB assembly (arms, upright, axle) is still lighter to a C-hub assembly using the aluminum parts. Some people resort to aluminums to remedy the C-hub frailty (This only applies to drivers who still have issues with the barriers)

The PB suspension is harder to setup but it's a small price to pay to greater adjustibility possible. Just by moving clips, you can try out all possible caster without going out to buy a different block.

and my favorite part...

no more kingpins going loose on you.

impulse racer: thanks for the info re: the short arms. What else do I need to convert to the short arm?

I don't even think the old T1 parts are still available. I still have a bunch because I never broke any to replace anything. So you should not need anything. If you have a FOC you should aready have the short arms. IF not then you will need the 2 rear axle/driveshafts, left and right wide offset front steering blocks, and the left and right short upper A arms. The lower A arms are the same.
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impulse_racer
Yes they did. The original arms were part #302130, 320140(right,left) the newer parts are #302131, 302141. They introduced them with the wide offset steering blocks, part #302211,302221 when the EVO II was released. With the EVO II Xray began using the same axles and shocks front and rear, the original T1 did not.
oh... THOSE short arms. I knew about those. I thought you meant some pivot ball arms that mounted outside the bulkheads, like the short c-hub arms do....

.... got it now. thanks!
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Old 11-30-2004, 10:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by pink pac man
c hubs r better
For you maybe. I just believe pillow ball suspension has gotten a bad rap. Mainly because before the original T1 there were no electrics with pillow ball suspensions. It was something new that the "pros" were not familiar with(unless they also drove a gas car). So because and JUST because it was different the Xray got labeled as "too complicated", "not for the beginner", "not good enough to compete with the more established cars". IF you remeber the drivers that made the car work in the beginning were established gas car champions. But because at the grassroots area the "local pros" could not help the newbie with this pillow ball contraption the bad reputation spread. Which caused Xray to quickly developed the C-hub conversion. Suddenly everyone was back in their comfort zone. And the pilowball suspension now became "too heavy" "didn't have as good a turn in" "cornering speed was not as good as the c-hub". BULL. Look I am no expert. And I am not saying the pillow ball is better than the C-hub or vice versa. All I know is that I took the time to get my car properly setup and I give nothin away to the Associateds, Losis, and HPIs, that run at my track.
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Old 11-30-2004, 11:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impulse_racer
All I know is that I took the time to get my car properly setup and I give nothin away to the Associateds, Losis, and HPIs, that run at my track.
I had a buddy that ran the PB suspension for a couple of seasons. He was the first local guy to have an xray and he proved it was competitive with ALL other manufacturers.

Its a good car in either form, though I do still believe it would be impossible to be underweight RTR with PB suspension for carpet racing with foam tires. Its not a bad rap... the weight is just fact.
Much like the durability... PB Xrays do NOT break! lol

PB does make caster changes easier, but you have to put your car on a setup board EVERYTIME you run to make sure you still have the right caster, camber, and track width. The only one of those you need to worry about with the c-hub is the camber.

I guess I'm lazy! I'll keep my c-hubs.
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Old 11-30-2004, 11:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
I had a buddy that ran the PB suspension for a couple of seasons. He was the first local guy to have an xray and he proved it was competitive with ALL other manufacturers.

Its a good car in either form, though I do still believe it would be impossible to be underweight RTR with PB suspension for carpet racing with foam tires. Its not a bad rap... the weight is just fact.
Much like the durability... PB Xrays do NOT break! lol

PB does make caster changes easier, but you have to put your car on a setup board EVERYTIME you run to make sure you still have the right caster, camber, and track width. The only one of those you need to worry about with the c-hub is the camber.

I guess I'm lazy! I'll keep my c-hubs.
Another urban legend about pillow ball suspensions. You DO NOT have to put the car on a setup board everytime you run. For that to be true it would mean that the pivot balls would back out or screw in tighter on their own. These are machine threads turned in composite plastic that pretty much mold themselves around the screw. The force on them is up and down not circular. The only way the pivot balls move is if you stick a 2.5mm allen wrench in them and move them. The caster is changed with clips spacing the upper A arm. So unless one pops out (never had it or seen it happen) the caster does not change through normal racing or use. I only put my car on a setup board 1) when I am experimenting with my setup, 2) I have disassembled the car for maintainance or cleaning, or 3) I hit something hard.
In other words the settings hold.

As far the weight is concerned, pull the motor, batteries, and wheels off your car and weigh it. Mine weighs 1lb 8oz. Or weigh the wheels, motor, and batteries and add 1lb 8oz. I don't think I am at a weight disadvantage. I am curious if I am or not. I am guessing my car weighs RTR about what an aluminum C-hub Xray weighs RTR.

Last edited by Impulse_racer; 12-01-2004 at 12:04 AM.
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