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Old 03-10-2005, 06:22 PM   #241
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Default T-Bar stuff

Dom- you're right about those post notifications. I had to find that feature and turn it off.

Until I get my website up, I guess that we will have to use rctech as the "chatty" side of information pool. When I get the site rolling, I plan on having a "read only" posts for set up tips and such. Until then, we can brainstorm here.

I am anxious to see what Dave comes up with on t-bars. I don't see any problem Dremmeling some recesses into the chassis where the t-bar cup screws would touch. I just would not try to counter bore over the counter sunk hole that mounts the t-bar itself. I am very self conscious when I countersink those holes to get the head of the screw as flush as possible with out enlarging the hole at the top of the plate. Other wise, the screw will bottom out into the pivot ball and it will eat out the chassis because it will not seat tightly. Yokomo's latest ride has a t-bar that is flush to the bottom of the car and suspended from overhead. I thought it was interesting to say the least. There might be something to it.

Sean tried briefly an 081 t-bar with a damper plate last night at Rain City. He admits that he may have had to thick of grease on it as it was just to rigid and made the car chattery. There will be more tests in the future, but the adjustability of the tubes greatly out weighs the plates.

The 081 t-bar maybe benaficial on a smooth track. Watching Seans car, it looked to be a little bouncy under acceleration. Until I try it, I wont know for sure.

It's hard to believe that in 20+ years, we are still trying to perfect the fiberglass t-bar.

Dave- you like the shirt?

Brian
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:33 AM   #242
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I don't mind the "chatty" nature - it's fairly typical of pretty much all threads and it gives me ideas of what to do/not to do to hear other people's experiences.

I say, "Keep it up!"
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:28 PM   #243
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what a waste of my time

Dom
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:38 PM   #244
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hey dom do you run your spanker stock or mod, i may have a set up ??? for ya
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:45 PM   #245
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Yea the shirt is off the hook! Myself along with just a few have experimented with the T-bar and have found that it has a positive effect on the way the car handles.doesnt allow the chassis to roll as much and the car goes thru the turns flatter and smoother thus providing enormous corner speed.I have recessed the chassis 2 different ways and they both work.1 was take .040 in square around where the 4 screws are it makes a nice recessed box look.The other is to recess just enough where the heads of the screws go into a recession but not hit the chassis when the T-bar is slammed to within .010 of the chassis.So their are differnt ways of doing it.

I bought the .081 T-bar to run at nationals and larger races because the bite is so much that the car is stuck to the track like a slot car where ever you point it it goes.and too stuck is a bad thing it slows the car down so much entering and exiting the corner its crazy.Using that T-bar loosens the rear abit so its not to planted and then I work with the frt end normally I widen it abit to I feel the car rotates to my liking in the corner.From my experience with the different forms of racing I've done I want a car that is just on the edge where it wants to break rear traction and frt but it doesnt it seems to be the fastes way around any corner.I've always called it riding on that fine line before disaster strikes.Might sound alittle funny but the car is really faster that way.
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:51 PM   #246
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Default Re: SPANKER

Quote:
Originally posted by Rudedog55
hey dom do you run your spanker stock or mod, i may have a set up ??? for ya
I ran stock once, I don't run mod because local races don't have enough guys. But I run 19T pretty much all season, the setup I've been running comes from Brian's mod setup.

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Old 03-11-2005, 12:52 PM   #247
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the problem i have is the car has too much ft traction, the car rotates so hard it spins the rear around especially in tight corners, the longer the race goes the better the car behaves, the first few laps are tough, i dont usually get my fastest lap till 1/2 way through the race. if i could get the car planted earlier the fast laps would be when the car has the most power.
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:53 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by serpentracer1
I've always called it riding on that fine line before disaster strikes.Might sound alittle funny but the car is really faster that way.
I've also quoted by an experienced driver that loose is fast... of course "loose" in this case isn't like undrivable.

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Old 03-11-2005, 12:58 PM   #249
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Brian,
I forgot to mention about the rear pod.The asc,crc and most 12th scales use a standard rear lower pod plate which basically are all the same the IRS on the other hand is different where the wheel base on all the others are just about the same the IRS is shorter Thats the way the cars geomertry was designed, so down the road I'll be able to try that pod plate as well to see what it does with the car.
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:03 PM   #250
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Default Re: set-up

Quote:
Originally posted by Rudedog55
the problem i have is the car has too much ft traction, the car rotates so hard it spins the rear around especially in tight corners, the longer the race goes the better the car behaves, the first few laps are tough, i dont usually get my fastest lap till 1/2 way through the race. if i could get the car planted earlier the fast laps would be when the car has the most power.
Post your setup so we know what you have. Are you running springs in the tubes? What front springs?

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Old 03-11-2005, 01:06 PM   #251
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Rudedog,
Do you use the std e-clip axle or axle with nut on end of it.I went to the crc(their Ti axle has a few more threads then most) axle in all my cars cause im able to adjust the frt wheel base of the car to take away or gain traction.If you do have the axle try placing .040-.050(use .010 motor shims) worth of washers on the axle first and run the carand if you dont have enough bite in the frt or to much still add or take washers out.At very High bite tracks Ive run .040 and a flanged bearing to help and I would adjust accordingly.Hope this helps.
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:10 PM   #252
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Rude,
Another thing to ck would be the width of the rear of the car to being to narrow in the rear would cause the car to over rotate also Theirs more then one thing that can cause it damping also.
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:10 PM   #253
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Default set-up

purple ft/ grey rear 1.7/1.8 dia, no springs in tubes, purple stuff for lube, 4mm ft and rear, proto speed 12, batts in the middle, .022 ft springs, -1 camber both sides, no toe, top hole on block in ft, diff smooth but just tight enough so i have no slippage,traction control inside 1/2 ft and full rear. let me know if you need more, oh yea .075 t bar, no spacer in middle
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:17 PM   #254
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nut axels in ft, 168mm in rear, usually un flanged bearings, i'll try that shim trick. it is almost if the car unloads the rear in fast tight corners, once the car slows it doesn't unload anymore
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:28 PM   #255
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Now I think that we are doing some productive thinking.

Dom and Rudedog- it sounds like you both are racing on simular tracks in at least the characteristics of the track. I know that when I raced at Salem, the car had intense steering for the opening couple of laps, then it settled down and then the last minute, it pushed. To fix that, I went to stiffer center oil (30wt), stiffer center spring (blue), stiffened the side springs slightly. I believe what was happeining was that the car had too much chemical traction initially, then went into a static mechanical grip mode that eventually faded as power tappered off. The cure seemed to be to add more mechanical traction through oil, spring, and torsion and less traction sauce applied to the front tires (1/4"). It worked at Salem, it might work for Rudedog.

Serpentracer- The bottom plate is something that I am looking at to see if I can make up an adjustable wheel base car. Since the t-bar is mounted up against the motor bulkhead (Asc parts), the wheel base can not go any shorter. If a plate was to be longer at it's mount holes (spacing the t-bar more forward) then I could move the chassis mounting holes more forward therefore giving us a choice to change out lower plates to suit track styles. If the IRS bulkheads are shorter and the plate is more occommodating, then we are in business. You guys may have to help me out here as I do not have any Rug Rat stuff.

Another thing to note in the lower plate. Look at it closely as you flex the rear pod forward. If you look at where the t-bar mounts to the plate, you notice a slight twist or flex in the lower plate. I know that some folks chop off the tail end of a t-bar to use instead of the 3 plastic spacers. This should act as a more rigid mount to the plate instead of the 3 spacers. We could also try a piece of c/f or steel to eliminate most of that flex. What that should gain for us would be more off power steering (for those that need that). It should created nearly the same effect as a stiffer center spring. This might help Dom and Rudedog. Don't get me wrong Dom, there is always more room to go faster

Serpentracer- you're scaring me with this mill out in a square business. I would stick to relief sinking at the screw heads.

Brian
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