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Old 10-17-2011, 06:32 AM   #1
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Default T3 2011 is slower then TC6, S411

Me and my friends have been running all the same car T3 2011. Our lap time are very very close, we can chase each other. One day my friends changed to TC6 and S411. I can see they are running faster suddenly. Both TC6 and S411 has faster turn in and faster corner speed. Just faster on corner over all and I have no way to catch them any more. I didn't think T3 2011 is so slow but now I have to accept the fact because we are the same level drivers. Those newer car really runs a lot faster. So, I am thinking to get a TC6 too in order to be able to catch them again. Recently, I see the T3 2012 is improved to become more flex. Maybe 2012 is able to complete with them but nobody knows yet. Should I get a proven faster car or gamble for the T3 2012? One thing for sure is the new 2012 still has the "too high" roll center post on top of the gear box plate. This is disappointing.

Anybody has experience running T3 2011 and is suddenly faster with newer car like BD5, TC6 and S411? We run on med to high traction track.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:48 AM   #2
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You can do whatever you like, but it's more likely that the setup that they have for the other cars is better suited to your track than the setup you all ran on the T3'11.

What sort of difference in laptimes are we talking?

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Old 10-17-2011, 06:50 AM   #3
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Are they using gear diff?
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:53 AM   #4
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Yes, all gear diff. Nobody use ball diff anymore. We all run 4.5T.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:06 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
You can do whatever you like, but it's more likely that the setup that they have for the other cars is better suited to your track than the setup you all ran on the T3'11.

What sort of difference in laptimes are we talking?

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Form day one of the day they switched to TC6 and S411. They already have faster corner speed. Compare to my T3 2011 which I have been running for a year. So one thing I am sure is no matter what I do. The t3 is very difficult to turn as fast as them. Those new cars are easier to run faster. This point is certain for me.

The lap time they improved is 0.4 faster per lap.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:44 AM   #6
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I think its setting and driving techniques. I also had similar turning problem but I m using t3 10. Now no problem keep up with rest of cars after setups. Tcx, tc6, 417, mi4, t311. Anyway if u find the reason please share k. All d best.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:19 AM   #7
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There is no real speeddifference between the chassis on the market. It is all about setup and how the chassis transformes it (and of course the driver).

The TC6 e.g. is a very easy fast to drive chassis with a wide setup window. I don't know about the XRAY, but all I heard was that what I said about the TC6 was once the strength of the XRAY-chassis.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:59 AM   #8
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I have heard it so many times saying if you are slower that means something wrong with your setting. It is right and wrong. But the point of a fast car means it is fast for avg racers. Not everybody is Hara here.

For example, I know people getting faster in driving MRX5, it is easier to go fast. So, this is a fast car.
I know Serpent 966 can do as fast but you have to be very experience on tuning and testing so many setting in order to get to the speed of MRX5. Not everybody is Michael Salven here, and what if you're can't tune the car to go faster. we call this is a slower car.
That's why people dumping 966 and change to MRX5 because your skill is limited so you need better weapon to go faster.

This is what I mean here. I need a better weapon.

And I really believe both S411 and TC6 is easier to go faster then T3 for avg racers.

Also, We sometimes heard this new TC4 is faster then TC3 0.3sec. If setting is everything to go fast then there is no need on doing any more chassis design. Simple because a different chassis really makes you go faster or slower due to your skill is limited.

The T3 2011 chassis is too stiff. All the new cars has more flex chassis. I believe this is the main reason for this T3 is slower then other. I hope the 2012 really fix the problem but I see it is still using 2.5mm chassis. Plus the camber link on the gear box side is too high. I see some drivers file it to get it lower. Also running the T3 2011, you may need to install the receiver on top of the servo. This is a bad design. Not everybody is using KO rx. Now they woke up and rotate to 90deg following others.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I have heard it so many times saying if you are slower that means something wrong with your setting. It is right and wrong. But the point of a fast car means it is fast for avg racers. Not everybody is Hara here.

For example, I know people getting faster in driving MRX5, it is easier to go fast. So, this is a fast car.
I know Serpent 966 can do as fast but you have to be very experience on tuning and testing so many setting in order to get to the speed of MRX5. Not everybody is Michael Salven here, and what if you're can't tune the car to go faster. we call this is a slower car.
That's why people dumping 966 and change to MRX5 because your skill is limited so you need better weapon to go faster.

This is what I mean here. I need a better weapon.

And I really believe both S411 and TC6 is easier to go faster then T3 for avg racers.

Also, We sometimes heard this new TC4 is faster then TC3 0.3sec. If setting is everything to go fast then there is no need on doing any more chassis design. Simple because a different chassis really makes you go faster or slower due to your skill is limited.

The T3 2011 chassis is too stiff. All the new cars has more flex chassis. I believe this is the main reason for this T3 is slower then other. I hope the 2012 really fix the problem but I see it is still using 2.5mm chassis. Plus the camber link on the gear box side is too high. I see some drivers file it to get it lower. Also running the T3 2011, you may need to install the receiver on top of the servo. This is a bad design. Not everybody is using KO rx. Now they woke up and rotate to 90deg following others.
Since you seem to be soo in tune with its weaknesses you have two choices, buy another car and start over, or buy some aftermarket parts that address the concerns you have. There are at least 3 aftermarket thinner chassis for the car, as well as spec-r clamps which are lower than xray, etc, etc. Or get crazy and take a dremel to your chassis

What I would do first would be to post your setup and track conditions in the "ask paul l" thread and see if he has some suggestions, that feedback is 1000x more useful than the other 99% of rctech advice.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I have heard it so many times saying if you are slower that means something wrong with your setting. It is right and wrong. But the point of a fast car means it is fast for avg racers. Not everybody is Hara here.

For example, I know people getting faster in driving MRX5, it is easier to go fast. So, this is a fast car.
I know Serpent 966 can do as fast but you have to be very experience on tuning and testing so many setting in order to get to the speed of MRX5. Not everybody is Michael Salven here, and what if you're can't tune the car to go faster. we call this is a slower car.
That's why people dumping 966 and change to MRX5 because your skill is limited so you need better weapon to go faster.

This is what I mean here. I need a better weapon.

And I really believe both S411 and TC6 is easier to go faster then T3 for avg racers.

Also, We sometimes heard this new TC4 is faster then TC3 0.3sec. If setting is everything to go fast then there is no need on doing any more chassis design. Simple because a different chassis really makes you go faster or slower due to your skill is limited.

The T3 2011 chassis is too stiff. All the new cars has more flex chassis. I believe this is the main reason for this T3 is slower then other. I hope the 2012 really fix the problem but I see it is still using 2.5mm chassis. Plus the camber link on the gear box side is too high. I see some drivers file it to get it lower. Also running the T3 2011, you may need to install the receiver on top of the servo. This is a bad design. Not everybody is using KO rx. Now they woke up and rotate to 90deg following others.
At some point he is right. This Year I was at the European championship in Austria and talked to some average racers that used T3 (out of the box) complaining about their cars and that the Factory drivers were using cars no near the design of the standard kit (the biggest difference was in the carbon peaces but also the bulkheads and other stuff). But usually the factory team drivers test some new things anyway. The point is that Tamiya, Yokomo, Serpent, Associated team drivers were using the standard kit with light modifications that you can do yourself and the Xray car was from the ground up different. That's what caused the main anger among the average drivers. You buy a new car for the 2011 season and in the middle of summer it's outdated!?
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:43 AM   #11
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Building a good setup for your track takes a lot of work and dedication. In some cases you can throw on a team driver setup and go fast and in other cases not. I always suggest people try a team driver setup because there is a lot of effort that goes into a setup. Most team drivers have a lot of great experience and access to engineers to hep them tune the car. There is a reason why most team drivers start withe the same base setup for the conditions and make very few changes.

Some cars are designed to be very aggressive like the Tamiya and the Yokomo. These cars tend to have a very small setup window, but with the right setup can be very very fast. With a fast car typically comes a car that is a bit harder to drive consistently.

On the other side you have cars that have a larger setup window and tend to not react to setup changes as easily. The Xray and the TC6 tend to fall in the same catageory, they are both easy cars to drive and have a larger setup window. All of the cars you are talking about are very capable in the hands of the right person. Working on your setup will help to ensure that you are getting the most out of the car. The Xray is a good car capable of more then what most of the average drivers can handle.

Sometimes a change in car can make a difference assuming of course you know what you are looking for in a touring car. In most cases changing cars does not make any difference, and usually just ends up costing a bunch of money. Find a car you like and go with it, but always know that the biggest factor is the driver not the car!
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:03 PM   #12
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Change all your ball bearings, before changing cars.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
Building a good setup for your track takes a lot of work and dedication. In some cases you can throw on a team driver setup and go fast and in other cases not. I always suggest people try a team driver setup because there is a lot of effort that goes into a setup. Most team drivers have a lot of great experience and access to engineers to hep them tune the car. There is a reason why most team drivers start withe the same base setup for the conditions and make very few changes.

Some cars are designed to be very aggressive like the Tamiya and the Yokomo. These cars tend to have a very small setup window, but with the right setup can be very very fast. With a fast car typically comes a car that is a bit harder to drive consistently.

On the other side you have cars that have a larger setup window and tend to not react to setup changes as easily. The Xray and the TC6 tend to fall in the same catageory, they are both easy cars to drive and have a larger setup window. All of the cars you are talking about are very capable in the hands of the right person. Working on your setup will help to ensure that you are getting the most out of the car. The Xray is a good car capable of more then what most of the average drivers can handle.

Sometimes a change in car can make a difference assuming of course you know what you are looking for in a touring car. In most cases changing cars does not make any difference, and usually just ends up costing a bunch of money. Find a car you like and go with it, but always know that the biggest factor is the driver not the car!
I can't comment on the TC6 because I've never worked with one but other than that I agree with all you wrote except about the XRAY car not responding to small setup changes, the opposite is true of the 2010 - 2012 models.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:25 PM   #14
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Personally I drive a TC6 and it's a great car but it has weaker parts than the Xray. If you're concerned with the chassis thickness and the servo orientation why not get the Exotek XR3 '11 chassis plate. Seems like that would resolve both issues and is cheaper than switching cars, buying spares etc. As far as the speed of each is I was able to drive a T3 '11 that belongs to the owner of the Florida Indoor RC track several months ago back to back with my TC6 and found the laptimes were almost identical. Pretty much what everyone else has said, all of the top chassis are capable of winning. I'm considering getting a T3 '12 due to the increased durability of it. Just my experiences hope it helps.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:21 PM   #15
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Yes S411 more easy to driver !
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