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Old 10-20-2011, 08:38 AM   #46
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I found something interesting. Many people claimed that a new car (the same car) runs faster then old car. So why not a different car can run faster??

Many people keep saying setup setup setup + driving driving driving ....... I know how important the setup and driving are but you will reach the optimal setup one day and your driving skill is limited. If you race and play rc car for 20 years like me. You know what is your limit. At a point, you will harder get any improvement. I know no matter how I work hard, I won't be as fast as Marc cuz already 20 years. If you can run 13 sec this is your fastest lap for a year. You harder can go below. Do you agree?? if not, show me. do the "setup + driving" see if you can go below your 13sec. I bet you can't. So the 13sec with you t3 is your limit.

So what should you do? Is to change the car. Of course there is no guarantee that you will run faster with your new car. You will need to observe what car works the best for you on your track. You need a upgrade your weapon.

I'm trying to let you guys know what I found and share it. Hope everyone improve their lap time. Don't be stubborn. It only makes you slow.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:08 AM   #47
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Nothing against Buckaroo here, but I had a TC5 for two years, before switching to the TC6 last november and my laptimes didn't improve like that! Maybe one tenth, but not proven. This also shows where I am in the races. Around 5-7 place with the TC5, now 3-6 with the TC6. If I had gained 4 tenth I would dominate my class like Vettel the F1!

Most time gain is on a 5 minute run, but that comes from making less mistakes because the car is much easier to drive. And that is maybe also the time gain on one lap! And the TC5 was a diva!

The only thing I can imagine is that the T3 does not fit your driving style. Just change cars with your friends and test it for yourself.
This tells me different car has different lap time. Now you can get a trophy of third. I think if your track has higher traction. The different is more obvious cuz TC6 is an aggressive car.
Now This is what I'm talking about. Your skill is limited, the car makes it different. It is a matter the different is big or small. I don't believe all car has the exact same lap time. Some must be slower and some must be faster for you.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:26 AM   #48
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You know what, I will have to agree with the t/s. As a matter of fact, I would like to help you get the TC6. Why don't you shoot me a PM for the price of that t3 '11. Make it fair, since it's slower than the TC6 and Serpent.....and worn out. Let's say 200 shipped??? That way, another 180 and you got yourself a brand spanking new TC6......
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:30 AM   #49
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Although the cars are very adjustable, the adjustments are finite.

The perfect setup may be out there, but not everyone has the time or funds to find it.

Therefore it's not surprising to find that one car is faster in a drivers hands than another. Doesn't mean that car will be faster for everyone.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:04 AM   #50
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to me its all about driver then setup. my friend and i both bought our T3 11 at the same time. initially when we started, we were both on the same level (its hard to really quantify if you are on parr but the litmus test for us was similar setup - we used the setup proposed in the manual and when we were on the track, neither one of us could either pull far ahead or drop far behind). as he became more skilled and i want to say probably more track time , he has become a better driver and even if he started behind me, he would pass me then pull ahead. next we decided to setup one car (mine) so that it would best suit the track we are on, his car was stock, this time i was able to keep up. but when we swapped cars, and i drove the stock setup and he drove the one with the new setup, he was even faster!!. so, i concluded that i am not a good driver , he was a better driver and secondly, setups are important.

i am also of the opinion (maybe there is no truth to this), that some drivers are what we call natural drivers, you can give them any car and they can drive it very well. some drivers however, tend to do really well with one model and setup but if you give them another model they will not do well.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:27 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
This tells me different car has different lap time. Now you can get a trophy of third. I think if your track has higher traction. The different is more obvious cuz TC6 is an aggressive car.
Now This is what I'm talking about. Your skill is limited, the car makes it different. It is a matter the different is big or small. I don't believe all car has the exact same lap time. Some must be slower and some must be faster for you.
Don't get me wrong here. The car is not faster, it is easier to drive. A good lap with TC5 is as fast as a good lap with the TC6. Corner speed is not faster. But within your driver limits the car makes it easier for you not to do mistakes. This is not a speed thing.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:37 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by rshair View Post
to me its all about driver then setup. my friend and i both bought our T3 11 at the same time. initially when we started, we were both on the same level (its hard to really quantify if you are on parr but the litmus test for us was similar setup - we used the setup proposed in the manual and when we were on the track, neither one of us could either pull far ahead or drop far behind). as he became more skilled and i want to say probably more track time , he has become a better driver and even if he started behind me, he would pass me then pull ahead. next we decided to setup one car (mine) so that it would best suit the track we are on, his car was stock, this time i was able to keep up. but when we swapped cars, and i drove the stock setup and he drove the one with the new setup, he was even faster!!. so, i concluded that i am not a good driver , he was a better driver and secondly, setups are important.

i am also of the opinion (maybe there is no truth to this), that some drivers are what we call natural drivers, you can give them any car and they can drive it very well. some drivers however, tend to do really well with one model and setup but if you give them another model they will not do well.
im a natural driver for off road, but this on road take time for me.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:19 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I found something interesting. Many people claimed that a new car (the same car) runs faster then old car. So why not a different car can run faster??

So what should you do? Is to change the car. Of course there is no guarantee that you will run faster with your new car. You will need to observe what car works the best for you on your track. You need a upgrade your weapon.
Agree, but no one wants to listen

Run both 417 and T3'11 for nearly a year. I know both cars very well as far as set up. Run them back to back twice a week..no matter what you do they feel fundamentally different, totally different, just a matter to find which suits best
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:34 AM   #54
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Don't get me wrong here. The car is not faster, it is easier to drive. A good lap with TC5 is as fast as a good lap with the TC6. Corner speed is not faster. But within your driver limits the car makes it easier for you not to do mistakes. This is not a speed thing.
If you read my beginning post, a easy to drive car is also define as a faster car. This is very true for avg drivers. Even they both at the same fastest lap time, a easier drive car is still faster at the end, so not all cars are the same. Some are faster.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:40 AM   #55
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Agree, but no one wants to listen

Run both 417 and T3'11 for nearly a year. I know both cars very well as far as set up. Run them back to back twice a week..no matter what you do they feel fundamentally different, totally different, just a matter to find which suits best
This is what I am trying to say. Not only setup and driving style can make up the gap. You also need a weapon that works for you the best then you will have more outstanding result. Nor keeping saying "setup and driving style" will do everything...... people need to experience more cars.
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Run both 417 and T3'11 for nearly a year. I know both cars very well as far as set up. Run them back to back twice a week..no matter what you do they feel fundamentally different, totally different, just a matter to find which suits best
+1

I own and have been messing with both cars lately. There doesn't seem to be any possible way to make one feel like the other. If I could get a car that turns like the Tamiya and has the stability of the XRay, that would be perfect. I know people will go on about how it's all in setup, but I've kind of come to the conclusion that they're full of *ish.
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:01 PM   #57
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+1

I own and have been messing with both cars lately. There doesn't seem to be any possible way to make one feel like the other. If I could get a car that turns like the Tamiya and has the stability of the XRay, that would be perfect. I know people will go on about how it's all in setup, but I've kind of come to the conclusion that they're full of *ish.
+1

Can't even get two cars of the same make to feel exactly the same. Guess thats why the Nascar guys bring a couple of cars to the track.
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:29 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Agree, but no one wants to listen

Run both 417 and T3'11 for nearly a year. I know both cars very well as far as set up. Run them back to back twice a week..no matter what you do they feel fundamentally different, totally different, just a matter to find which suits best
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
If you read my beginning post, a easy to drive car is also define as a faster car. This is very true for avg drivers. Even they both at the same fastest lap time, a easier drive car is still faster at the end, so not all cars are the same. Some are faster.
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
+1

I own and have been messing with both cars lately. There doesn't seem to be any possible way to make one feel like the other. If I could get a car that turns like the Tamiya and has the stability of the XRay, that would be perfect. I know people will go on about how it's all in setup, but I've kind of come to the conclusion that they're full of *ish.
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+1

Can't even get two cars of the same make to feel exactly the same. Guess thats why the Nascar guys bring a couple of cars to the track.
I don't dissagree with these statements, but they still don't back up the initial thread title that simply say's that the T3'11 is slower.
Perhaps it would be better to say, some cars are faster in the hands of my friends.

If you believe that your choice of car is the problem, why did you bother posting this at all, why not just get the same car as them?

Perhaps the new T3'12 will be 'faster' than the others
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:56 PM   #59
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This question has a simple answer. I am sure this has been said before but I have to back up the person with the original post.

- Driver
- Setup
- Rolling Chassis

Some cars just work better on different surfaces than others. I don't just mean asphalt vs carpet but minor surface changes. Some Chassis work better on tight layouts vs layouts with long high speed corners. I run BMWCCA autocross and some weeks I lose to the same guy I beat the previous week because his chassis works better on a particular layout or bite condition. The TC6 was primarily designed on high bite asphalt at my local track so it works very well at that track. For anybody to say one chassis is not better than another for a certain track and it is only driver and setup is wrong. The TC6 will indeed be better than other chassis in some situations and it will be worse in others. In motorsport it is impossible to make every chassis perfect for every condition. The differences are minimal because of the large tuning range of an RC Chassis but there are differences none the less.
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
+1

I own and have been messing with both cars lately. There doesn't seem to be any possible way to make one feel like the other. If I could get a car that turns like the Tamiya and has the stability of the XRay, that would be perfect. I know people will go on about how it's all in setup, but I've kind of come to the conclusion that they're full of *ish.
YES 100% This is my experience exactly. 417 has steering, great steering, but Xray fantastic stable rear end. I have set up both cars with exactly the same geometry down to 0.2mm and they are totally different, its the carbon lay up in the chassis/top deck and the graphite suspension on the Tamiya, lower diffs, they will never feel similar

The reason I have persisted with the two cars is I feel both have very positive attributes and I'm looking to understand why, and get a car which has the best of both. Usually the Xray is quicker but if I can get the Tamiya stable enough its the quickest car of all
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