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Old 10-18-2011, 12:36 PM   #31
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I have heard it so many times saying if you are slower that means something wrong with your setting. It is right and wrong. But the point of a fast car means it is fast for avg racers. Not everybody is Hara here.

For example, I know people getting faster in driving MRX5, it is easier to go fast. So, this is a fast car.
I know Serpent 966 can do as fast but you have to be very experience on tuning and testing so many setting in order to get to the speed of MRX5. Not everybody is Michael Salven here, and what if you're can't tune the car to go faster. we call this is a slower car.
That's why people dumping 966 and change to MRX5 because your skill is limited so you need better weapon to go faster.

This is what I mean here. I need a better weapon.

And I really believe both S411 and TC6 is easier to go faster then T3 for avg racers.

Also, We sometimes heard this new TC4 is faster then TC3 0.3sec. If setting is everything to go fast then there is no need on doing any more chassis design. Simple because a different chassis really makes you go faster or slower due to your skill is limited.

The T3 2011 chassis is too stiff. All the new cars has more flex chassis. I believe this is the main reason for this T3 is slower then other. I hope the 2012 really fix the problem but I see it is still using 2.5mm chassis. Plus the camber link on the gear box side is too high. I see some drivers file it to get it lower. Also running the T3 2011, you may need to install the receiver on top of the servo. This is a bad design. Not everybody is using KO rx. Now they woke up and rotate to 90deg following others.
You are an RC manufacturer's dream customer.

The snake car (966) is still the fast car at my track. People only switched to Mugen because they "think" they can be faster only because Robert Pietsch won the Worlds.

No matter what you say its all down to driver set-up and driver ability. Some cars may be easier to set up but that doesn't mean they can out run others if the other is properly set up also. Maintenencs is also an issue. Perhaps you're running a kit with some worn parts or bearings and your friends cars are new and fresh but their parts will eventually be worn as well without maintenance.

I'm an average racer and am running a T2 009 and am just as fast as anyone else with equal ability running a T3 or newer. If I am slow, I blame myself and not the car.
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:12 PM   #32
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If you and your mates got t3'11's at the same time, and they changed their cars after say 8 months, their cars will be newer and fresher. Cars have a habit of wearing down in many small and incrimental ways. I recall a TOP driver saying to me he's getting a new car - I assumed it to be a new model, but it was just a replacement. BAck to back it was faster than his old car - why - wear and tear.

The only car I have heard that does make a big difference on lap times is the russian awesomatix. The only car to make a finals at the ets in stock and mod with the same driver

I reckon skiddins hit the nail on the head at the outset - it could simply be set up.

All said and done, I find that the Xray creates so much rear grip that it has to be dialled out.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:11 PM   #33
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I had been raced at socal raceway (won sportsman A 1 2 3 4 5...)and running tc car since yok yr4. I have many experience and tuning and driving technic. And this is what I believe that setup and driver is the most important parts, i still think so on this. Now I see my close friends switched to s411 and tc6 then they are suddenly faster, I'm talking on day one they drive that car. I can see they are cornering faster. So, I found out the car really makes a big improvement if your current car and your tuning and driving skills are limited. When you can't go any faster, you need to switch to a faster car.

I was a 100% true believer like most of the guys here think every top cars can go as fast as other. But I see not now, you run TC3 and go 10sec the fastest. Then if you try TC6 you may go 9.5sec. It is hard to believe if you drive different car and you still get 10sec the same for all kind f car. It should be some cars go faster and some slower for you. And I'm saying T3 is not the fastest car. To me of what I see TC6 and S411 are faster.

When comparing, please do not compare for example Hara driving TT01 and you drive T3 then saying wow TT01 can go as fast as T3. Only compare to yourself because only you have the same skill level applied on the car. You should see TT01 is slower then T3 in this case. So TT01 is a slower car. Not saying TT01 is as fast as T3 and not mention it is Hara's TT01. Unless you have some close friends like me, we run tc every week together. And I understand each other skill level is the same and we are at very close speed. Then I can compare what is the different when they change the car.

I also see guy saying I drive TC4 and TC3 and it is the same fast as other new cars. I think if you switch to TC6 or other new car, you should not go as fast as them. You should be faster now. I believe if you run modified class, the different is more obvious.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:48 AM   #34
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So what is the argument/point here? 3 pages of debating setup vs driver vs car, why don't you just buy a TC6?



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I had been raced at socal raceway (won sportsman A 1 2 3 4 5...)and running tc car since yok yr4. I have many experience and tuning and driving technic. And this is what I believe that setup and driver is the most important parts, i still think so on this. Now I see my close friends switched to s411 and tc6 then they are suddenly faster, I'm talking on day one they drive that car. I can see they are cornering faster. So, I found out the car really makes a big improvement if your current car and your tuning and driving skills are limited. When you can't go any faster, you need to switch to a faster car.

I was a 100% true believer like most of the guys here think every top cars can go as fast as other. But I see not now, you run TC3 and go 10sec the fastest. Then if you try TC6 you may go 9.5sec. It is hard to believe if you drive different car and you still get 10sec the same for all kind f car. It should be some cars go faster and some slower for you. And I'm saying T3 is not the fastest car. To me of what I see TC6 and S411 are faster.

When comparing, please do not compare for example Hara driving TT01 and you drive T3 then saying wow TT01 can go as fast as T3. Only compare to yourself because only you have the same skill level applied on the car. You should see TT01 is slower then T3 in this case. So TT01 is a slower car. Not saying TT01 is as fast as T3 and not mention it is Hara's TT01. Unless you have some close friends like me, we run tc every week together. And I understand each other skill level is the same and we are at very close speed. Then I can compare what is the different when they change the car.

I also see guy saying I drive TC4 and TC3 and it is the same fast as other new cars. I think if you switch to TC6 or other new car, you should not go as fast as them. You should be faster now. I believe if you run modified class, the different is more obvious.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:34 AM   #35
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I have been racing the same car for 3 seasons now.

I do think it's time for a new car, but do wonder how much time I am loosing due to a worn car, as opposed to my skill level

Sometimes your driving style does not allow you to be the fastest, it depends on the other people you are racing against.

I have a very aggressive car setup and driving style when I am racing, I am not smooth.

This is probably where my weak area is, and is probably from many years of racing brushed stock motors.

You have to look at the whole picture when you race RC, not just the car, or the equipment in it, or your driving style/experience, or the people you race against - or even the track size....
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:20 AM   #36
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ioxqq - I just don't see how there is any chance of you convincing anyone of your opinion.

If what you are saying is true, T3s would not have made it to any finals, or had any real racing success (other than the odd lucky win maybe).

Considering the T6 and S411 were both instantly faster, on initial setup, what would be the chances of them not improving with some setup changes? (Rhetorical question, can only assume both drivers did not setup cars perfect the first run and there would be further speed improvement)

So the difference in speed you report would only increase.
Multiply the difference over a race and the T3s would be lapped.

Surely there are enough T3s out there that this would be common knowledge?
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #37
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I was one of you guys before. Very strong in believing any car can go as fast as others. It is just a matter of running and driving until I saw my friends. The car really makes you go faster then what you can do with your previous car. This is a big surprise for me that's why I post here for discussion. And I feel you guys is the same as a younger me.

I have one question for you guys:

Does your current car runs as fast as your previous car? Compare to their fastest lap.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:55 AM   #38
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Check this out. This is what I have been talking:

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Got a chance to run my TC6 tonight. Only had a busted LTC-R body to run, so I made do. I'm running the Herbert Indoor Champs set up, mostly. Still running the long camber links, black ball studs, and using a #2 piston and 40 weight oil as kit parts until my short links, silver ball studs, and blank piston arrive. Got me a new Boss 17.5 and a Tekin RS. Rolling Sorex 24s.

DAMN, this thing is DIALED IN!!!!!

Just a few more little tweaks I want to try, but WOW. Struggled to put my TC5 into the 13s no matter what set up I've put on it, even with the help of some of the local hot drivers, who always had trouble with the 5 as well.

But I was running consistent low 12s to high 11s at my local track tonight with the 6. I've been the slowest guy at the track week to week in our points series (you have NO idea how bad that sucks!!!), but that all seems to be at an end! Can't wait for Saturday! 10.5-11.5sec laps gets you into the A, and we've been getting enough participation in non-boosted to run a full C.

Running +10 degrees of motor timing and a 35/78 gear (4.46 FDR) and coming off a run at about 105F, so there's probably more room in temp (up to 160F) than gears will physically fit, although I've been told that up to a 38 will fit. That or I'll have to go to 64P for more options and tighter ratios.

It was like one of those "Lightbulb finally went on" moments where I realized that my equipment has been holding me back for a while now!

My Speed6 body is almost done, I'll post pics tomorrow. Ode to ShopUFO.

Edit to add....This thing is scarry quiet, too! Hardly makes a sound zipping down the track.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I was one of you guys before. Very strong in believing any car can go as fast as others. It is just a matter of running and driving until I saw my friends. The car really makes you go faster then what you can do with your previous car. This is a big surprise for me that's why I post here for discussion. And I feel you guys is the same as a younger me.

I have one question for you guys:

Does your current car runs as fast as your previous car? Compare to their fastest lap.
Well I pretty much agree, some cars are faster than others, except it depends on who is driving. I mean, not how good you are but what suits you best.

My Xray and Tamiya are fastest. My Photon AND CEFX in particular were definitely the slowest
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:31 PM   #40
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Form day one of the day they switched to TC6 and S411. They already have faster corner speed. Compare to my T3 2011 which I have been running for a year. So one thing I am sure is no matter what I do. The t3 is very difficult to turn as fast as them. Those new cars are easier to run faster. This point is certain for me.

The lap time they improved is 0.4 faster per lap.

So the lap time is improved by 0.4s. May I know what is the average lap time?

In my local track, mean track time for average racer is around 15s a lap (mod). 0.4s translate to a huge improvement. I really hope this is true. Then I can simply buy a new chassis and easily cut this next to impossible 0.4s. And then, there come another chassis which can cut the lap time by another 0.4s, and ....

My guess is that is the driving style and chassis characteristic match issue.
Maybe you can try your friend's car before you made a decision ?
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioxqq View Post
I was one of you guys before. Very strong in believing any car can go as fast as others. It is just a matter of running and driving until I saw my friends. The car really makes you go faster then what you can do with your previous car. This is a big surprise for me that's why I post here for discussion. And I feel you guys is the same as a younger me.

I have one question for you guys:

Does your current car runs as fast as your previous car? Compare to their fastest lap.
To be frank with you, you are wrong. A different "setup" may make you go faster but to say "the car" makes you go faster is simply because of the setup. You may say you had the optimal setup on your Xrays but this is clearly not the truth. Even with the average driver to say the new Xray is slower then the Tc6 or Serpent car is crazy. It is reasonable to expect that different cars will have to be setup different then other cars on the market to achieve the same result i.e. laptime.

To say that the Tc6 is faster for YOU is a very valid statement. To say that it is a faster car then the Xray is not right. The reason there are so many cars is because everyone likes something different.

Another thing to consider is that the .4sec per lap you are claiming here would be monumental for many of the very good but not professional drivers on this forum. I do not know if you realize the weight of your claim, by making it you are essentially setting yourself up for the argument that your driving skills are not at a level to which you would be able to make the conclusive statements that you are attempting here. I would guess there are multiple people in this thread that if we could switch cars and drop .4sec per lap on average we would be in national Amains of some sort.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:28 PM   #42
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Maybe this has been suggested before but why not ask one of your friends to let you drive their new cars back to back with yours and see what the laptimes are like with you at the wheel? I mean the setup will vary but at least you'll see if it really is a difference in your laptimes, plus you don't have to buy a car which isn't a good fit for you.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:43 PM   #43
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Check this out. This is what I have been talking:

Got a chance to run my TC6 tonight. Only had a busted LTC-R body to run, so I made do. I'm running the Herbert Indoor Champs set up, mostly. Still running the long camber links, black ball studs, and using a #2 piston and 40 weight oil as kit parts until my short links, silver ball studs, and blank piston arrive. Got me a new Boss 17.5 and a Tekin RS. Rolling Sorex 24s.

DAMN, this thing is DIALED IN!!!!!
Nothing against Buckaroo here, but I had a TC5 for two years, before switching to the TC6 last november and my laptimes didn't improve like that! Maybe one tenth, but not proven. This also shows where I am in the races. Around 5-7 place with the TC5, now 3-6 with the TC6. If I had gained 4 tenth I would dominate my class like Vettel the F1!

Most time gain is on a 5 minute run, but that comes from making less mistakes because the car is much easier to drive. And that is maybe also the time gain on one lap! And the TC5 was a diva!

The only thing I can imagine is that the T3 does not fit your driving style. Just change cars with your friends and test it for yourself.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:56 PM   #44
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Lets do a little actually testing.

Take your old car run it. Log the lap times.

Now build THE EXACT SAME CAR WITH THE EXACT SAME SETTING WITH EXACT SAME RUNNING GEAR BUT BRAND NEW...Log the laps...guess what your lap time is faster.

No magic...worn out equals slow.
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:47 AM   #45
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I highly doubt that the T3 11 is 'slower' than a TC6 or S411. Your friends who just got new cars are probably faster because 1) they just got 'new' cars and 2) setup. If their cars are brand spankin new of course they will be a bit faster because nothing is worn yet, while your T3 11 has several runs on it and parts start to age. Your argument that certain cars are faster is crazy, a newer car will always have an advantage no matter the brand because parts wear - bearings, diffs, suspension, etc.
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