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Old 10-12-2011, 06:42 PM   #46
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While I suspect you could measure the output waveform with a fairly basic o-scope... scopes in general are pretty expensive and fragile tools. They need to be calibrated yearly, serviced by the manufacturer, and are not suited for being transported around the country outside of a giant ESD safe styrofoam suitcase.

5-6 figure scopes are not at all uncommon for even the smallest of semiconductor design corps, etc.

Blah blah blah.... Having an in-house scope to test ESCs and their firmware for approval is one thing. Transporting them around the country to multiple races is another.

Can it be done? Probably. Is ROAR/etc willing to put forth the effort needed for it to be done correctly/safely/effectively? *shrugs*
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:44 PM   #47
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It's simple. Confiscate the top three speedos after the race, send them in for testing. Find anything fishy, someone gets the college football death penalty.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #48
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This is exactly what I was referring to eight months ago ,in another thread , when I said that the only way to know that racers are not cheating in spec class is to have a machine that checks for it before the whole vehicle and radio gets impounded right before quals and mains , and no laptop or phones in the pits, which need to be under video surveillance 24/7 ! Either that or run Gtb type ESC's.....
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
It's simple. Confiscate the top three speedos after the race, send them in for testing. Find anything fishy, someone gets the college football death penalty.
The problem with that is the race is already over at that point. People spend thousands of dollars to come to these races to find out that the guy that qualified in front of them was cheating because simple tech was not done?

Make people load their speedo software in tech and somehow mark the reciever case and speedo plug so if removed it will show it. They can do it with motors to show they have been taken apart why not with speedos?

Done Deal.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:50 PM   #50
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Good job last week Larry! Your car was freaking awesome all week! To bad the mechanic failed you in the main.

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Old 10-12-2011, 06:54 PM   #51
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Finally , you got it ! No more of " This week's CHEATER" with that system, and please double check the so-called Prototypes ...
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:05 PM   #52
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I love you Larry fairtrace.

But the fact still remains the same. Any speedo that can have software loaded at the track should be banned from blinky, and there are different versions of 212.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:10 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
While I suspect you could measure the output waveform with a fairly basic o-scope... scopes in general are pretty expensive and fragile tools. They need to be calibrated yearly, serviced by the manufacturer, and are not suited for being transported around the country outside of a giant ESD safe styrofoam suitcase.

5-6 figure scopes are not at all uncommon for even the smallest of semiconductor design corps, etc.

Blah blah blah.... Having an in-house scope to test ESCs and their firmware for approval is one thing. Transporting them around the country to multiple races is another.

Can it be done? Probably. Is ROAR/etc willing to put forth the effort needed for it to be done correctly/safely/effectively? *shrugs*
Electronics are a LOT cheaper and more robust than you think. I"ve personally banged around sub $2K oscopes around the flight decks of US Navy aircraft carriers for over 20 years. Even in aircraft out in the weather all the time, we still test for(and find) VERY precise measaurements of voltage and waveform all the time with nothing other than an annual calibration that takes less than 5 man hours.

If someone with a high school education and a tech school can do that, ROAR can certainly do it, as well as ANYONE else that can understand a manual written for a 5th grade reading level.

The only two things that are missing are "Demand" from the racers paying the entry fees and "Desire" on the part of the race directors.

Even if user flashable ESCs were banned, it would still be blamed on "Team Chips". You just can't convince some people to ....

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...... just realize that hard work and dedication is the only thing that will make them better.

.....

I want to join the group "People for harsher rules and stricter tech"

But I think I may be in the minority.
If you're in the minority, I am, too.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:23 PM   #54
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Just wondering, couldn't a manufacturer:

1. Put code to activate a boosted software (e.g. pump the brake 5 times).
2. Code where non-boost becomes boosted after a certain time parameter (e.g. 30 seconds).

Both would allow the esc to pass tech inspection of oscilloscopes.

Maybe sensorless is a better standard?

Just a thought.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:35 PM   #55
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So, if I'm reading correctly...

1.) Blinky eliminated the perception of cheating in the stock classes and everyone had equal speed and rip regardless of the ESC brand and motor chosen.

2.) Boosted classes had such a low turnout that nobody is interested in running it ever again, because there's so much controversy and equipment selection is so important and expensive.

Did I misread something?
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:50 PM   #56
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Do I hear $100 claim rule on blinky esc and $50 claim rule for motor?

At my local track I tell every driver in our blinky class if you think that there is something on my car that is helping me win I will sell it to you or you can bring me the item nib and I will swap it right out or if you like you can swap it right out for me. No one has taken me up on this but the offer is there.

Lets make a claim rule!!!!!!!
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:42 AM   #57
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Kinda funny how "open esc" fixes all of this, and we're regulating speedos.

Regardless of the rules, racers will still find something to complain about/blame for their poor performances. Remember when we started this whole foray into brushless, and everyone complained that it was untunable and slow,then two years of boost, and actually having to learn $h!t, and we're back to zero timing advance. It's kinda funny that in both formulas the fast guys are still fast and the slow guys are still slow..........
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:48 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al dente View Post
I love you Larry fairtrace.

But the fact still remains the same. Any speedo that can have software loaded at the track should be banned from blinky, and there are different versions of 212.
I love you Mario, but there's nothing gayer than having to buy a different ESC for every class you race.

If an ESC can't be updated or tailored to different classes in this day and age, then it's a joke.

Plus, you don't necessarily have to have a programmable speedo to cheat. There are tons of people that could program a few degrees of timing advance into any speedo on the market, all while the light blinks. The same guys could do it on a non-adjustable speedo like the old spheres. It's already been done, and NO reasonable amount of pre or post race tech will be able to find it.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:49 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
So, if I'm reading correctly...

1.) Blinky eliminated the perception of cheating in the stock classes and everyone had equal speed and rip regardless of the ESC brand and motor chosen.

2.) Boosted classes had such a low turnout that nobody is interested in running it ever again, because there's so much controversy and equipment selection is so important and expensive.

Did I misread something?
You didn't mis-read anything, you're just smart enough to call bull$h!t on both statements......................
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al dente View Post
I love you Larry fairtrace.

But the fact still remains the same. Any speedo that can have software loaded at the track should be banned from blinky, and there are different versions of 212.
You know what? I'm going to say you're right and wrong at the same time. Two versions of 212 did get released. The original release, which was before it was released to the general public, had a bug in it and there was another release a couple of days later.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with timing. And the whole world has been running on the same and official release of 212 for a year.

I could guarantee you the the other ESC manufacturers have tested each other's speedos. Tekin, LRP, Novak, Speed Passion, Hobbywing etc. are all legal. It is Orca that were idiots, and they have been punished for it.

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