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Old 10-10-2011, 08:22 PM   #31
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funny Im reading this after the post I made on the USVTA thread...

everyone knows I think VTA is the almighty class to save on-road...and its has saved alot of tracks and racers....but it will never rival SCT/Slash until a true RTR is available

HPI and Novak need to come together and produce a legal car for new guys to get into it.....

HPI tried and somehow ended up with a Mamba esc and motor...but still stuck the USVTA logo on the advertisement....

for the VTA class, we use mostly Novak esc's and HPI bodies...and its in the rules for Novak motors and HPI rims/wheels...so its part of the glue for the class....HPI has chassis, and Im sure novak can produce a servo...lets get it done...

hey I will say this...when two tracks, from two different sides of the country(north/south) host USVTA events, and you have around 100 entries each....VTA has got to be on to something

FYI...the USVTA thread is messed up cause VTA IS HOT!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:58 PM   #32
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Okay, not to get too deep into the entire "what will me the next big thing" talk. Several factors go into what makes shortcourse popular, we all know that. Most of those factors would need to fall into place for an On-road class to become short course hot.

LHS support, it would have to be available at your local hobby store.
Cost, your LHS would have to be able to compete with the online retailers
Parts, your LHS has all parts availble for a "racer"

Locally, the only RC that fits all of these is the "slash". Our slash class is being replaces by "stock SC" or in other words, guys that got into it for the fun, have decided that they want a better "race" vehicle. Lots of "slash"s for sale.

VTA, TC, Oval, WGT, F1 all are NOT supported at my LHS. Planes and copter's are their biggest seller, (profit margin).

That being said, I'll be running a TC and an Oval. My SC will be on the shelf, as it was the only rig I ran last year. Locally we had a great time running our SC trucks on the carpet. No reason the SC can't be the SC of on-road.

IMO, wondering about F1 is like wondering when soccer is gonna become a "major" sport......btw, ill be watching the "new" F1 class locally, and wont rule out that Ill have one by the end of the season. Just depends, on the following.

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Old 10-10-2011, 10:11 PM   #33
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Soccer is the #1 sport outside of the US. Barclay's Premier League, you know it! As is F1 as a spectator sport. But, we don't want no stinking spectators.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
funny Im reading this after the post I made on the USVTA thread...

everyone knows I think VTA is the almighty class to save on-road...and its has saved alot of tracks and racers....but it will never rival SCT/Slash until a true RTR is available

HPI and Novak need to come together and produce a legal car for new guys to get into it.....

HPI tried and somehow ended up with a Mamba esc and motor...but still stuck the USVTA logo on the advertisement....

for the VTA class, we use mostly Novak esc's and HPI bodies...and its in the rules for Novak motors and HPI rims/wheels...so its part of the glue for the class....HPI has chassis, and Im sure novak can produce a servo...lets get it done...

hey I will say this...when two tracks, from two different sides of the country(north/south) host USVTA events, and you have around 100 entries each....VTA has got to be on to something

FYI...the USVTA thread is messed up cause VTA IS HOT!!!!!!!!!!
What's killing USVTA IMO is the 25.5 motor limitation. There's a million 21.5 motors out there and a lot of people don't like Novak. Why set a limitation on the motor to ONE manufacturer only? I recently got back into running on-road and thought VTA would be awesome, but no one in SoCal is running VTA races, primarily because of this limitation.

The FF class got some push for a while as the next big thing as they're very scale, affordable, and don't have the limitations that a pan car has e.g. ride height and crazy tuning requirements. But again, since there's only one horse in the race (Tamiya) you don't see hundreds of people getting into them.

As well as NASCAR does in the states, Traxxas could easily take their 1/16th platform, get in with the sponsors and do what they did with Monster Jam and have replicas of everyone's cars. That style class might take off if they sold the cars at NASCAR events to try and garner more business, similar to how they did at CORR and other off-road events with the Slash. But again, the initial investment is always more than just the cost of the RTR, so that turns off many people who are just getting into the hobby.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:54 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by hnasdad View Post
VTA, TC, Oval, WGT, F1 all are NOT supported at my LHS. Planes and copter's are their biggest seller, (profit margin). The LHS stocks parts based on what is selling. If you go in and dont see what you are looking for then turn around and walk out and buy online, they will NEVER stock the parts you need. I've talked to the local owner about supporting the new F1 class with parts and he has agreed to get some parts in. But it's hard to know what to stock if no one asks for anything. He's also told me he will get some TC6 parts in which are currently not stocked.

That being said, I'll be running a TC and an Oval. My SC will be on the shelf, as it was the only rig I ran last year. Locally we had a great time running our SC trucks on the carpet. No reason the SC can't be the SC of on-road.

IMO, wondering about F1 is like wondering when soccer is gonna become a "major" sport......btw, ill be watching the "new" F1 class locally, and wont rule out that Ill have one by the end of the season. Just depends, on the following. It seems a lot of people will be doing the same thing. Which in the end hurts the F1 class from even getting started. When I first brought it up locally everyone was gung ho about it. Now it seems everyone wants to wait and see. It will be a fun class. No doubt about it. But unless people jump in a join the fun it will die quickly. BTW I bought my F1 before even bringing it up to anyone. I want to make it happen.

KC
Not trying to call you out or single you out in any way. But if everyone watches to see if it takes off, it NEVER will. I hope you do get one. It will be yet another class we can race against each other in. See ya in a few weeks!
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:08 PM   #36
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Not trying to call you out or single you out in any way. But if everyone watches to see if it takes off, it NEVER will.
This also applies to everyone that wants to discuss the rules first. There have been multiple discussions here of various places wanting to start a F1 class, yet they just sit around discussing which rules to run and never get the class going. Again look at those running a "Slash" class. For the most part they could care less what motor the other guys have. They just want to get out on the track and drive their trucks.

For on road to have a Slash type car it needs to be RTR so you can open the box charge the battery and go drive. The more you add to that process the fewer people you will get interested.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:33 AM   #37
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Our club started out with a couple of guys running F1, then slowly month by month things got bigger and bigger until there was over ten cars racing.

Really the key is to run 540 Johnson motors. This keeps things simple and cheap to get into. They are actually pretty fast when geared at 31/93 (F103 with 58mm tyres).

Too many rules always makes things complicated and gives people excuses not to race.

Its not really true that you can't get parts for them, they are everywhere! Especially easy to get parts in Hong Kong though.

Probably the thing that stands out with the F1 racing is how realistic they look on the track. Everyone can identify with them especially if the racers put an effort in to paint the cars realistically....
I really have to congratulate the UF1 series for this!!!!!

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:48 AM   #38
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Tamiya tried to make them easier by using 4wd, wich is just...strange.

But did somebody try to use a gyro in a f1 ?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickvig View Post
What's killing USVTA IMO is the 25.5 motor limitation. There's a million 21.5 motors out there and a lot of people don't like Novak. Why set a limitation on the motor to ONE manufacturer only? I recently got back into running on-road and thought VTA would be awesome, but no one in SoCal is running VTA races, primarily because of this limitation.
Nothing is killing VTA, it's just not big in socal.

Why one motor? Ask any 17.5 racer how many motors they have bought because a new faster one came out.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:21 AM   #40
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Default About the gyro in F1

Yes!!! Zen racing has one Gyro for f104 cars but... I think it should be illegal
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:26 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by rokosam View Post
Yes!!! Zen racing has one Gyro for f104 cars but... I think it should be illegal
Why not make it a class:

"Pro" F1

Open dimensions
Open manufactures
Open body, wing and diffuser
17.5 (open speedo and motor)
Foam Tires

vs.

"Formula 3000"

Tamiya F104's
Kit body, wing and diffuser
Handout Johnson 540 (black endbell) any Tamiya brushed ESC
Rubber Tires
Gyro

this is basically the UF1 formula with my own special blend to herbs and spices...
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:24 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=robk;9766386]Nothing is killing VTA, it's just not big in socal.

Why one motor? Ask any 17.5 racer how many motors they have bought because a new faster one came out.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for pointing that out. This is the very reason why we are going to USVTA and USGT rules for next year(minus the driver figure). A couple weeks ago one of our mid level guys was actually on par with the upper level guys. One of the upper level guys switched to brand "x" motor and suddenly was waaaaaayyyyyyy faster, thus starting the new cycle of motor of the month and killing the fun for a few people. By the way this is 17.5 blinky class TC. We will still have that class, but I have a feeling it will be a bit smaller next year.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Nothing is killing VTA, it's just not big in socal.

Why one motor? Ask any 17.5 racer how many motors they have bought because a new faster one came out.
+1...excactly....or any class...even silver can...Ive seen guys buy these things by the "BOX" and sort and find a "good one"...who does that...and a new guy isnt going to do all that...heck I want either.....

the new rules work extremely well and the same motor rule is just another perk for the class and growth...

I wasnt a Novak fan either...but since going brushless in 2008...Ive had a 17.5 SS w/ 4 cell, 21.5 Ballastic, and upgraded the stator to 25.5....so maybe 2 motors for a class in almost 4 years?...show me another class on or off road that can say that....

FYI, Ive bought (3) TC 17.5 motors this summer..but none for my VTA car...

USVTA racing might not be the cure...but its a good band-aid that will help heal the on-road wounds...

back to topic....we tried a spec f1 class with the HPI F10...not bad...here is what we did...

since none of us had a F1 car...we used box stock HPI F10...minor upgrade, like motor mount and shock
1 battery
1 esc
1 motor

http://nashrcracer.com/forum/viewtop...asc&highlight=

read it...it will show where it started and ended...might give you F1 guys some ideas
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:52 AM   #44
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So,

Who wants to help build 50 VTA RTR or BND kits?

50 25.5s/Edge or GTB2 combos - Volume Pricing - <$150??
50 HPI bodies - painted with blank number circles applied - approximately $40 each.
50 5000mAh batteries - what ever C Rating - Gens Ace makes a nice 40C for $30.00 and a 50C
50 Lipo chargers and power supplies - <$100.00 for balance charger and PSU.
50 3Racing Sakura Zero S chassis, built and tuned. At $105.00 each and upgradeable to a full Zero it is a growth platform.
50 radio sets - Hitech SS with receiver and servo is 89.00 or less - 2.4 GHz Spread Spectrum receiver or choice of receiver (50.00 to 90.00)
50 sets of HPI front tires and rims - glued
50 sets of HPI rear tires and rims - glued
Misc. supplies - $15 per kit.

Not including irons, solder, shock oil, diff grease, a decent spring set and other overhead we would need to make a true take it out and race it package.

This still at our cost puts the car at $600.00 just to race. To make 50, that's $30,000 of overhead that no one knows is going to sell.

Now this sounds awfully negative of me, but its not. I do know people who will walk into a shop knowing that if they pull the car from the box, charge the battery and can race in under an hour would buy it. My concern is still driving the cost and overhead of our LHSs and manufacturers down to an acceptable level. To us it is racing, to them it is business. Where is the middle?
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:54 AM   #45
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The only real difference in F1 cost would be Wheels and tires as they come with the kit, the body as they come with the kit and the motor as it comes with the kit. A brushless ESC would be needed also.
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