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Old 10-26-2011, 09:06 PM   #361
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In order for this to be the "Short Course" of onroad it the progression of events will need to be such:
1: massively popular RTR released
2: Spec racing class started
3: people start ignoring rules
4: Within two years, underneath the body the cars soon resemble slightly narrow-chassis World GT cars with all the bells and whistles

This is not in the least me trying to be sarcastic, that is the progression of short course. The only problem is that we lack novelty, to a new guy a short course truck strongly resembles a trophy truck and makes em feel good to drive. F1 could do that, but some large manufacturer would have to start making a cheap RTR (think Tamiya Mini Cooper), and that is hard to do for an onroad car that cant even pretend to have rally aspirations.

This shit is a hard sell, I'll buy it, but I am pretty sure four other people where I race will be more difficult customers. Its hard enough to get five guys for 1/12, let alone F1.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:16 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
I remember the frowns and bad attitudes the racers had at first when I showed up with my Nikko to practice : nobody liked it when I passed them, and some were cursing, but couldn't do a thing to me....The shame couldn't be wiped off their faces for a long time until they realised I was serious about my racing, and they subsequently let it be....Whenever they see me now they ask me for my F1, and it's all good now that I am getting my FGX , but had I not been someone with a tough character, I would have quit a long time ago !!!!! Guys let the youngsters bring their cars to your tracks without having to be intimidated because they don't have the right chassis. You discourage them that first time, and they will quit for sure !!! Or maybe that's what you guys want !!!
Hey bertrands, I have two of the Nikkos, They are actually pretty neat with a few adjustments and better tires. I have not seen them in a while. If you or anyone else see's alphacat tell him to send them back to me. LOL!
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:24 PM   #363
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Word of caution. Be very careful about "run what you brung" being allowed in your F1 class. I have been racing rc cars since 1987 and I started with F1 back then with the Tamiya Road Wizard. Anyway, over the years I have started various classes of cars with specific rules. Usually those classes started out being made up of myself and a few close friends who all agreed to the rules package. We would show up on Saturday nights and race our class and all was well at first; but then others who also raced in different classes would notice our class and want to get in on it. Great; except that they wanted us to allow them to use something, whether it be a different motor, tires, body, or even car than what the rules allowed. They would make the claim that they had these items already and didn't want to spend the money to buy the "correct" parts to be legal. We would end up giving in and let them run because we wanted to see the class grow; but we would tell them that after a certain amount of time they would need to make the necessary changes to make their cars legal. Well, to make a long story short, they never did make those changes, and soon others were getting involved with "illegal" equipment and the result was that the whole class was corrupted and eventually it would self destruct!

The point is that allowing "run what you brung" for the sake of having more participants in a given class doesn't work in the long run. It eventually corrupts the class and then in most cases the class ends up with no one racing in it. Once you "open the barn door", you can't close it again!

F1 racing needs a specific rules package like either the UF1 series or the one suggested by BP Shadow, or a combination of the two(which I favor)

Understand that if a "national" overall rules package for F1 is adopted, that it will NOT please everybody. Some are going to be ticked off because they couldn't run or do what they want. But for the sake of purity of the F1 class some hard decisions that cannot be compromised will need to be made. Don't water it down just for the sake of bringing in more racers. Stand your ground for class integrity!
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:30 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
In order for this to be the "Short Course" of onroad it the progression of events will need to be such:
1: massively popular RTR released
2: Spec racing class started
3: people start ignoring rules
4: Within two years, underneath the body the cars soon resemble slightly narrow-chassis World GT cars with all the bells and whistles

This is not in the least me trying to be sarcastic, that is the progression of short course. The only problem is that we lack novelty, to a new guy a short course truck strongly resembles a trophy truck and makes em feel good to drive. F1 could do that, but some large manufacturer would have to start making a cheap RTR (think Tamiya Mini Cooper), and that is hard to do for an onroad car that cant even pretend to have rally aspirations.

This shit is a hard sell, I'll buy it, but I am pretty sure four other people where I race will be more difficult customers. Its hard enough to get five guys for 1/12, let alone F1.
I think the F1 cars can pick up where 1/12th left off. I honestly think 1/12th has died because it has become to fast for alot of people to get a handle on. People have a hard time saying "this is to fast for me to drive" so they just kinda vanish. When they see F1 with its slower speeds and scale looks they might be willing to come back. We have a never ending need to go faster making us our own worst enemy. By putting rules in place to protect us from ourself the class has a chance to grow and thrive.
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Old 10-26-2011, 09:36 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
Word of caution. Be very careful about "run what you brung" being allowed in your F1 class. I have been racing rc cars since 1987 and I started with F1 back then with the Tamiya Road Wizard. Anyway, over the years I have started various classes of cars with specific rules. Usually those classes started out being made up of myself and a few close friends who all agreed to the rules package. We would show up on Saturday nights and race our class and all was well at first; but then others who also raced in different classes would notice our class and want to get in on it. Great; except that they wanted us to allow them to use something, whether it be a different motor, tires, body, or even car than what the rules allowed. They would make the claim that they had these items already and didn't want to spend the money to buy the "correct" parts to be legal. We would end up giving in and let them run because we wanted to see the class grow; but we would tell them that after a certain amount of time they would need to make the necessary changes to make their cars legal. Well, to make a long story short, they never did make those changes, and soon others were getting involved with "illegal" equipment and the result was that the whole class was corrupted and eventually it would self destruct!

The point is that allowing "run what you brung" for the sake of having more participants in a given class doesn't work in the long run. It eventually corrupts the class and then in most cases the class ends up with no one racing in it. Once you "open the barn door", you can't close it again!

F1 racing needs a specific rules package like either the UF1 series or the one suggested by BP Shadow, or a combination of the two(which I favor)

Understand that if a "national" overall rules package for F1 is adopted, that it will NOT please everybody. Some are going to be ticked off because they couldn't run or do what they want. But for the sake of purity of the F1 class some hard decisions that cannot be compromised will need to be made. Don't water it down just for the sake of bringing in more racers. Stand your ground for class integrity!
Very well said!! I am the kind of guy who would kill a class like your talking about. I like to push the edge of the rules in the quest for speed. Thats why I and a few others have come up with such tight rules for our F1 class.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:17 PM   #366
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Here in Australia there has been a boom in interest since the release of the FGX.

A bunch of TC racers just want to get a FGX, put a Hobbywing Justock ESC (blinky ESC) with a non timed HW 17.5 and go out and have some fun. If the F104/103 guys want to join in then great as far as we are concerned

The more sedate pace means that all racers can cope with the speed and there should be far less breakages because of the lower speed
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:32 PM   #367
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Here in Australia there has been a boom in interest since the release of the FGX.

A bunch of TC racers just want to get a FGX, put a Hobbywing Justock ESC (blinky ESC) with a non timed HW 17.5 and go out and have some fun. If the F104/103 guys want to join in then great as far as we are concerned

The more sedate pace means that all racers can cope with the speed and there should be far less breakages because of the lower speed
I can't speak to the FGX, but everyone talks about how much slower that these cars are. This is far from the case, it's not 12th scale mod but it is far from slow. Even with a silverman they are not slow. And there is nothing relaxing about driving them at speed, it's intense and a mental workout.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:50 PM   #368
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THe more sedate pace referred to was compared to TC Mod or open 17.5.

Yes these cars will be lighter but will still be slower using non timed motor AND ESC
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:23 PM   #369
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Come on down to Brooklyn next year , I'll show you how it's done....
That explains it...
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:26 PM   #370
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THe more sedate pace referred to was compared to TC Mod or open 17.5.

Yes these cars will be lighter but will still be slower using non timed motor AND ESC
Sorry, I didnt mean to snap on you, I think that alot of people just instantly equate silvercan with lower speed, and I have run right with an unboosted !7.5 sedan with both the 103 and 104.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:36 PM   #371
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Sorry, I didnt mean to snap on you, I think that alot of people just instantly equate silvercan with lower speed, and I have run right with an unboosted !7.5 sedan with both the 103 and 104.
From my three laps or so of testing I did tonight I call BS. lol My car was what some would call a PILE.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:34 AM   #372
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I used to race in the 80s. Back then, it was run what you brung. I could not even care less about what car had what advantage. All I wanted was a venue to race my rc car. 174 racers in the class I joined. Some ran 2wd, some 4wd, rubber, foams, silver cans, modified motors, etc. No one complained, everyone just showed up to race and have fun I guess.

Not knocking on those who want tight rules on F1. If that's what works for your area, it's all good. My objective is totally different. It is to promote cheap scale looking rc cars to encourage "newbies" to join. It is not to cater to the hardcore racers (they can join the $500 TC car class).

I am noting this is "can F1 be the next shortcourse" thread... meaning cheap and fun class for new blood to join the hobby. And that's my objective when defining rules (or lack of it).

Will I tell a newbie, who brings his F103 to race, that no, you cannot join, it is 10mm too wide? I don't have the heart to do that. What I have is compromise, newbies can run what they have (e.g. foams, f103), while experienced racers are encouraged to run rubber/fixed gearing. That way racing is even closer than ever.



p.s. our next fun race is Nov 19. Nikkos are most welcome. Indoor asphalt surface...

p.s.s here were 2011 statistics on F1 racing in my area.

2011 Tamiya Asia Cup - tight rules. Started with 7 racers, eventually dwindled to 3. Atmosphere felt so serious.
2011 F1 club fun races - Run what you brung. First event attracted 11 racers. Everyone laughing, having fun.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:45 AM   #373
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From my three laps or so of testing I did tonight I call BS. lol My car was what some would call a PILE.
Silvercans are very gearing dependent. With mine, i had it at 92/31 on foams on a Losi 2s pack. It was very quick, almost 17.5 blinky quick. As the foams wore down, I didnt adjust for rollout and ended up cooking the can. That being said, some silvercans are duds as well and some are awesome. I normally race 1s 21.5 pan car, so the f103 was pretty fast to me. Drop in a 21.5 and take those variables out of the equation.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:46 PM   #374
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WOW Great thread!

I’d like to start by giving props to Tekin Prez for asking the question. I’ve read each and every post on here and I think there are a number of good points from realistic enthusiasts. Likewise I’ve seen a few comments that make me scratch my head.

So, is F1 the on-road savior…unfortunately no. It’s already been said and I’ll say it again…the cars are too difficult to drive for a new person. They’re durable, fast, definitely eye appealing, but a handful for a rookie (hell even some of the seasoned drivers). I’ve seen quite a few new people show up to the track with an F1 and leave several hours later disappointed and frustrated never to return.

However, I think it’s a class that could lend life support to on-road. I say keep it easy and simple. Dasmopar is going about it the right way for his group, yet some people have already shot him down because his rules are too limiting for the masses….yet he’s doing it. He and a group of his friends have put together something simple and fun. Worry about the other chassis IF one even shows up. If they get a spoiler with a $400-$600 car let him run, give that person a fixed gear ratio and tire size to try and equal things out. But, if a new person was to ask what’s needed to join the fun it’s a simple formula he can give them with kits and parts that are available at their local hobby shop. Additionally, Robk’s point (post #264) is spot on.

I truly hope this works out. Will it be as big as I remember in the 90’s…maybe? Are the guys running in the USF1 having as much fun as we did in the 90’s FOR SURE! Look how many people on this thread have referred to it and given props to its creators. I’ve heard from a few of those guys that it’s a blast, low key, fun and an overall good time for everyone participating. Isn’t that what this hobby should be promoting…the FUN!?!

One more thing that I think would help encourage new people thinking about jumping into F1 is share information. Help a new person with their set up and be honest about it. I’ve seen a few people purposely give misinformation…and you know who you are. WHY…Are you scared to be beaten by a rookie…REALLY? That doesn’t help the hobby grow and without growth the ever shrinking pond will get even smaller.

Just my 2 cents. Be good humans!
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:58 PM   #375
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Well put Sir Vyger!!
If I am not mistaken, you should have some new creations to unleash on the F1 faithful in the near future
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WOW Great thread!

I’d like to start by giving props to TekkenPres for asking the question. I’ve read each and every post on here and I think there are a number of good points from realistic enthusiasts. Likewise I’ve seen a few comments that make me scratch my head.

So, is F1 the on-road savior…unfortunately no. It’s already been said and I’ll say it again…the cars are too difficult to drive for a new person. They’re durable, fast, definitely eye appealing, but a handful for a rookie (hell even some of the seasoned drivers). I’ve seen quite a few new people show up to the track with an F1 and leave several hours later disappointed and frustrated never to return.

However, I think it’s a class that could lend life support to on-road. I say keep it easy and simple. Dasmopar is going about it the right way for his group, yet some people have already shot him down because his rules are too limiting for the masses….yet he’s doing it. He and a group of his friends have put together something simple and fun. Worry about the other chassis IF one even shows up. If they get a spoiler with a $400-$600 car let him run, give that person a fixed gear ratio and tire size to try and equal things out. But, if a new person was to ask what’s needed to join the fun it’s a simple formula he can give them with kits and parts that are available at their local hobby shop. Additionally, Robk’s point (post #264) is spot on.

I truly hope this works out. Will it be as big as I remember in the 90’s…maybe? Are the guys running in the USF1 having as much fun as we did in the 90’s FOR SURE! Look how many people on this thread have referred to it and given props to its creators. I’ve heard from a few of those guys that it’s a blast, low key, fun and an overall good time for everyone participating. Isn’t that what this hobby should be promoting…the FUN!?!

One more thing that I think would help encourage new people thinking about jumping into F1 is share information. Help a new person with their set up and be honest about it. I’ve seen a few people purposely give misinformation…and you know who you are. WHY…Are you scared to be beaten by a rookie…REALLY? That doesn’t help the hobby grow and without growth the ever shrinking pond will get even smaller.

Just my 2 cents. Be good humans!
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