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Old 10-20-2011, 12:15 AM   #256
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:21 AM   #257
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lol...I was invoking parliamentary procedure...when you nominate someon and ask for a second, youre asking if someone agrees with your nomination. or motion
I know, I was invoking my smart assness.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:24 AM   #258
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After watching the F1 class at the IIC race it looks pretty good. With F1 coming to the US it has the same realism that people can relate to and provides a lower cost entry class for onroad racing.

Could F1 do for onroad what shortcourse did for offroad?

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Short answer NO.

The pan style F1 RWD cars are hard to drive unless you are on a very open fast flowing track. The F104’s running tiny foam tyres as everyone one around here seems to run do not look realistic on the track. They do not capture the same attention as previous models and beginners struggle with setup and driving spending all there time spinning in circles. I have seen a few turn up and start racing with F104’s only to give up after a couple of months never return to RC.

The F201 4WD on the other hand had scale F1 suspension and reacted like a real F1 car. With the scale grooved tyres they looked like real F1 cars on the track had the same (bounce and movements) and with 4WD made them easier to drive and perform better. Beginners also had an easier learning curve for both setup and driving with the F201. Just about all the guys who started running the F201 are still racing touring cars today.

I loved racing F1’s with the F201 and I wouldn’t hesitate to race F1’s again if a new version of the car or a similar design was released. As to the pan style F1 cars I wouldn’t waste my time and I would just run a pan car if I wanted to run a pan car.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:16 AM   #259
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The F201 always looked a bit fat to me to be scale...that and F1 no longer runs a grooved tire. The F104 is a much more scale looking car for more current F1 cars and with rubber tires you don't have to worry about the super small foam tires. The 4wd made the F201 react very much not like a real F1 and there was a number of durability issues with the car. In the short time the F104 has been out it is easily as popular as the F201 ever was and is sure to surpass it quickly...if it can ever catch up to the popularity of the F103 remains to be seen as that was the most popular F1 chassis so far. The one thing the F201 had going for it was it was pretty easy to drive since it was 4wd. But a F103/104 style car can be as well if the track surface has enough grip. Easier time on setup of the F201? The F201 was one of the most, if not the most, complicated cars I have ever driven and was a major pain to get setup. Especially given that it rarely held its settings from one corner to the next. Not to mention the bell crank in-board suspension gets even more complex than a normal upright suspension as when you add shims to either side of the bell crank you can affect bump and rebound...I could go on and on about the flaws in the design of the car but I'll just leave it at the F201 era was short lived and for good reason.
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:49 AM   #260
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I nominate mxrich...do I have a second?
You need to think hard about this, I'm prone to falling asleep at meetings.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:20 AM   #261
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I nominate mxrich...do I have a second?
I'll second.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:17 PM   #262
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Whew! Glad someone came back. When my name came up you would have thought that Obama guy came to town with another idea to fix everything. LOL!
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:34 PM   #263
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Now. There are better and more knowledgable F1 peeps out there. Most of them are on this forum. It really would take 5 or so people from other parts of the country working to make this happen and get it up there with VTA, nitro offroad SCTand other large events. Simple is always better. Put some more names out here. They are serouse about F1 and want it to grow. We don't need any sanctioning body right now. We just need numbers and basic rules that are the same everywhere. Then the ones that say they make the rules will come to us. By then we will have a plan. My favorite classes have always been F1, Stock 4wd buggy...gone and pancar dirt oval...also gone. I do this because I like it. Nothing else.

And if you look at the forums people are wanting to gather Pro-10 cars instead of F1. I do like them but let's get this going first. It's why we are here.
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Old 10-21-2011, 08:46 PM   #264
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Dasmopar, your heart is in the right place but you missed something. If all the racing is based on the 104 chassis then you kill all the other cars that are running right now. 3racing 109,Tech-racing, TRG, Cross,Himoto, all the others out there and all the other Tamiyas. Did you notice that the F103 is back? There is a very good reason for that. It works and it's what most every car is modeled after .We also need the other companies to send their products here to sell. There is more than one chassis in Full size F1 and more than one power source. My last computer crashed and I had pages of the F1's in Japan and asia. They are not restricted as we are and they are encouraged to come up with new designs at the local level. Mantisworks F1 is a great example of what can be done here.There are some wild designs over there and the companies watch them at every race for new ideas. I was told there were 18 companies that build F1 cars there. Some we have not seen in the U.S. since they are too small to be mainstream but they race every weekend. If all the cars fit the perameters let them race. It can only help.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:24 PM   #265
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Looks like Dasmopar has just setup a TCS series for the most part.

I think a basic dimension(width) for the car should be setup along with wing and body specs. Then let the spirit of F1 come and and let people make and modify there cars. Is IRS the way to go? Can better wings and diffusers be made to improve performance?


A simple way to go about this. Look at true F1 rules then scale them to 1/10th scale.

From:http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru...l_regulations/

3.3 Overall width:
The overall width of the car, excluding tyres, must not exceed 1800mm with the steered wheels in the straight ahead position and the tyres inflated to 1.4 bar.

3.4.1 Bodywork width between the front and rear wheel centre lines must not exceed 1400mm.

3.5.1 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and less than 150mm above the reference plane must not exceed 1000mm.

3.5.2 The width of bodywork behind the rear wheel centre line and more than 150mm above the reference plane must not exceed 750mm.

3.6 Overall height:
No part of the bodywork may be more than 950mm above the reference plane.

Then add in something about the inner pivot of the front suspension arms must be inside the body work. This eliminates the ugly very non scale looking pan cars.

This would give us true to scale rules of 180mm wide car no more than 95mm tall. The rear wing can only be 75mm wide with a 100mm wide diffuser. the body of the car would be 140mm wide. The front wing rules get a little more complicated and I do not feel like working through them right now. With the front wing rules the length of the car is mapped out also.

Why reinvent the wheel when we just have to scale it down. If someone wants to run the wider(F103 and F104w can be narrowed down to 180mm very easily) cars let them come up with rules for a vintage class.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:21 PM   #266
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Dasmopar, your heart is in the right place but you missed something. If all the racing is based on the 104 chassis then you kill all the other cars that are running right now. 3racing 109,Tech-racing, TRG, Cross,Himoto, all the others out there and all the other Tamiyas. Did you notice that the F103 is back? There is a very good reason for that. It works and it's what most every car is modeled after .We also need the other companies to send their products here to sell. There is more than one chassis in Full size F1 and more than one power source. My last computer crashed and I had pages of the F1's in Japan and asia. They are not restricted as we are and they are encouraged to come up with new designs at the local level. Mantisworks F1 is a great example of what can be done here.There are some wild designs over there and the companies watch them at every race for new ideas. I was told there were 18 companies that build F1 cars there. Some we have not seen in the U.S. since they are too small to be mainstream but they race every weekend. If all the cars fit the perameters let them race. It can only help.
What you are over looking is that we are not trying to use competition to develop the fastest F1 car possiable. We are trying to create a class in which people can buy a car, motor, esc and know they have "The" car for the class. Our class should be all about car set up and driver and not so much about parts, motors, and ESC's. We picked the Tamiya F104 because they are all over the place and can be had cheap. Plus many tracks have F1 classes and the F104 is legal in most all f1 classes allowing our guys to travel to other tracks and race if they wanted to. Parts are always just a click away and our LHS can stock parts for just the F104 and and have everyone covered.

The other thing that made the F104 so appealing to me and the other racers that said they would buy a car to race this winter is it is a perfect copy of the real cars so they just flat look cool! My guess is when I'm done racing my F1 it will just get hung on the wall and stay there forever. I already have diecast F1 cars so a 1/10th scale f1 will fit right in.
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Old 10-22-2011, 04:30 AM   #267
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Been there and done that.When it first came out there were just two companies making the F1.Everyone either had a Tamiya F103 or a Kyosho. Nobody ran the Kyosho. Had the F1's at the Nationals (ROAR) in 1996 in florida. so guy named Joel Johnson got a brand new Kyosho F1 and built it at the track. TQed everyone running the Tamiya's and HPI's and he put it on the shelf after the first run. Nobody beat his TQ the entire weekend - not even close.
Your restricting the Serpent (not out yet), Corally but you allowing all these other companies with the elaborite chassis that put the price way up to compete with the stock type tamiyas and HPI's? That's what hurts the class in the first place.What happens if Associated built a chassis? You got a chassis run it.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:06 AM   #268
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Does the Corrally use rubber tires? Or just pan foams? I think we re making this harder than it needs to be. Just start racing, see what works, keep it fun. If some knucklehead needs to get a $400 chassis to compete, let him. And laugh. Over spec-ing the class before it even gets goin kills it faster than anything. Come up with what works for your area.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:13 AM   #269
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Does the Corrally use rubber tires? Or just pan foams? I think we re making this harder than it needs to be. Just start racing, see what works, keep it fun. If some knucklehead needs to get a $400 chassis to compete, let him. And laugh. Over spec-ing the class before it even gets goin kills it faster than anything. Come up with what works for your area.
you said it perfectly
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:24 AM   #270
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Does the Corrally use rubber tires? Or just pan foams? I think we re making this harder than it needs to be. Just start racing, see what works, keep it fun. If some knucklehead needs to get a $400 chassis to compete, let him. And laugh. Over spec-ing the class before it even gets goin kills it faster than anything. Come up with what works for your area.
Well the problem with waiting to make rules after you start racing is if someone goes out and buys a 400 dollar chassis and starts beating everyone by alot you have to tell him to take his new car and go pound sand. Now the next guy shows up with a 350 dollar chassis and its better too. So you have to kick him out to keep the majority happy and racing also. Now you have 2 F1 racers who will never race F1 again.

Our idea is to lay down rules before we start racing so everyone is on the same level playing field. Making and changing rules midstream always pisses someone off and in my experience thats what kills classes.
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