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Old 10-13-2011, 05:41 PM   #151
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Well then you run into issues where people will ask if you will allow them to re-true the tires due to coning...and people wearing down the tires so now you have some people on tall tires and some people on short ones. While I prefer foam tires on pan cars regulating tire height is going to cause problems...especially on carpet where a tall sidewall will cause your car to traction roll. The spec Lilac tires used in WGT are a pretty firm tire but even with those if you do not true them down to almost nothing your car will be traction rolling on carpet.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:48 PM   #152
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I personally think the F104 out of the box is fine. Sometimes it doesn't run well but it's the same for any f1 car with rubber tires.

My best rubber tires are RIDE and HPI as i have mentioned many times. If you want to go faster, try RIDE/HPI. If you wanna go safer (stable), use Pit Shimizu.
I bought an F104 in the hopes of getting involved with F-1 racing (as a fan of the full scale Formula 1) but I find it to be virtually undriveable, even with the Tamiya soft rear tires and hard fronts. It spins out everywhere on the track and has major oversteer, even with extreme expo on the radio. I had BPShadow do me a really nice Red Bull body for it and it's now nothing more than a shelf queen on my hobby table. I'd sell it, if it wasn't so cool looking there on display...I've given up on pursuing on-road; someone else said it right - the on-road racers themselves are their own worst enemies, when it comes to attracting new blood.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:51 PM   #153
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Hooray! Somebody that knows the deal. That's why we are going to rubber only in 2012. I have never liked how they cut the 1/12 cars. Even before the race all you can see is rim,glue, and a small patch of foam. If there is to be a rule change in racing it should be that you finish with a full tire on any foam tire car.

Thank you Kaycerc
You can't carry any corner speed with tall tires and that's what wins races.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #154
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I bought an F104 in the hopes of getting involved with F-1 racing (as a fan of the full scale Formula 1) but I find it to be virtually undriveable, even with the Tamiya soft rear tires and hard fronts. It spins out everywhere on the track and has major oversteer, even with extreme expo on the radio. I had BPShadow do me a really nice Red Bull body for it and it's now nothing more than a shelf queen on my hobby table. I'd sell it, if it wasn't so cool looking there on display...I've given up on pursuing on-road; someone else said it right - the on-road racers themselves are their own worst enemies, when it comes to attracting new blood.
The stock t-plate for the rear suspension is way too stiff and will cause handling like this. Look for the super soft one...the one with the cut out around the rear screw...and that should help keep the rear end planted better.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #155
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You can't carry any corner speed with tall tires and that's what wins races.
My fault. I meant to say the tires should have foam covering the rim at the end of the race. If a tire has a chunk out of it from a hit well that may something that could not be helped. But you know what I mean.

In other news several new racers want to use the 21.5 as their own class for F1. As I have been told there is not much difference in laptimes between the two. I'll let them run together for a race or two to see how it goes. More than likely it will still come down to skill and setup. I love this job.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:31 PM   #156
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f103 > f104
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:36 PM   #157
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You guys are funny - about foam tires. I can't take this crybaby attitude any more. You can't get the class going because the guys over here in Florida have to order the Rubber tires from California who in turn orders them from Japan and China. But Foams that are availble in 1/12th and 1/10th are easily more available anywhere in the USA. And your arguing over the size of the foam tires.
As for the stock T plates (F103) that's all I've ever used with my modifications.And a 21.5 and silver can on carpet are equal...............................
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:43 PM   #158
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You guys are funny - about foam tires. I can't take this crybaby attitude any more. You can't get the class going because the guys over here in Florida have to order the Rubber tires from California who in turn orders them from Japan and China. But Foams that are availble in 1/12th and 1/10th are easily more available anywhere in the USA. And your arguing over the size of the foam tires.
And for once the argument is yours are smaller than mine.

PS, I don't think F1 foams should be trued more than enough to touch them up. A simple caliper takes care of that. Too small, change them or don't race.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:06 PM   #159
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You guys are funny - about foam tires. I can't take this crybaby attitude any more. You can't get the class going because the guys over here in Florida have to order the Rubber tires from California who in turn orders them from Japan and China. But Foams that are availble in 1/12th and 1/10th are easily more available anywhere in the USA. And your arguing over the size of the foam tires.
As for the stock T plates (F103) that's all I've ever used with my modifications.And a 21.5 and silver can on carpet are equal...............................
The argument about foams has a lot to do with scale appearance. Rubber tires will always be the right size to look scale in the class but foam tires can be cut right down to the rim to work well but lose the scale appearance. Part of what seems to be the attracting factor to the class and any potential on-road "Slash" type class is the scale appearance.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:19 PM   #160
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Rubber only works on carpet. Foams work everywhere and are easily available.
You want the car to work or look good? I'll take handling. And now you have Corally and soon to be released Serpent with their cars banned. That's a great way to get the class going. Maybe CRC will update there old F1 car.Oh but it too had 1/10th foam tires. Purple and pinks (foam) but then it's not going to happen- F1 that is. Mine is for sale since they no longer race them here.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:32 PM   #161
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Actually there are cases where foams will not work on asphalt at all where rubber will at least get the cars to a drive-able state. It largely depends on the sealant used and if you are allowed to treat the asphalt or not.

The point is the cars have to look good and work. If they don't look good they won't attract new people...if they don't work they won't hold the interest of veteran racers. Allowing some cars to use a standard pan car rim while others can't will fracture the class worse than if you standardize the tires right off the bat. That was one of the big reasons F1 didn't catch on bigger than it did back when it was more popular than today.

Here's a novel idea...how about a rim with a fake tire on it that brings the diameter out to standard pan car diameter but is F1 sized in width. Then glue foam on top of that. This gives us the grip of foam tires and maintains the scale dimensions even if the foam gets cut down really small. Sounds kinda like a pain to me but is a compromise that would keep most people happy. Just tossin something out there to chew on.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:03 PM   #162
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Well then you run into issues where people will ask if you will allow them to re-true the tires due to coning...and people wearing down the tires so now you have some people on tall tires and some people on short ones. While I prefer foam tires on pan cars regulating tire height is going to cause problems...especially on carpet where a tall sidewall will cause your car to traction roll. The spec Lilac tires used in WGT are a pretty firm tire but even with those if you do not true them down to almost nothing your car will be traction rolling on carpet.
No way, if your suspension is properly set your tires won't cone.
We ran on carpet back when we discovered ozite, and had no traction roll issues. Same setups we ran on asphalt.

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The argument about foams has a lot to do with scale appearance. Rubber tires will always be the right size to look scale in the class but foam tires can be cut right down to the rim to work well but lose the scale appearance. Part of what seems to be the attracting factor to the class and any potential on-road "Slash" type class is the scale appearance.
That's ridiculous, from 10 feet away you can't tell.
Most places, the overwhelming majority of tracks, the "slash class" died, because they were piles that handled like POS. Let's leave that silly concept out of the equation, because your idea is no more valid than treaded tires in SC. Nobody cared, and found out proper tires that handled won out over any argument about "scale appearance."

Last edited by kaycerc; 10-13-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:10 PM   #163
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Rubber only works on carpet. Foams work everywhere and are easily available.
You want the car to work or look good? I'll take handling. And now you have Corally and soon to be released Serpent with their cars banned. That's a great way to get the class going. Maybe CRC will update there old F1 car.Oh but it too had 1/10th foam tires. Purple and pinks (foam) but then it's not going to happen- F1 that is. Mine is for sale since they no longer race them here.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:31 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by BullFrog View Post
Rubber only works on carpet. Foams work everywhere and are easily available.
You want the car to work or look good? I'll take handling. And now you have Corally and soon to be released Serpent with their cars banned. That's a great way to get the class going. Maybe CRC will update there old F1 car.Oh but it too had 1/10th foam tires. Purple and pinks (foam) but then it's not going to happen- F1 that is. Mine is for sale since they no longer race them here.
Cars like this:



The only solution for gems like this would be to put the HPI rear axle set on it to run their rims and F104 or F103 tires.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:56 PM   #165
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Pan car tires work everywhere, but tamiya didn't like it and came with their own foams, and now if they wear a bit, we have to get new ones to keep the scale. What's the minimum size they should be? It's getting too expensive ! Too many new rules ! Next tamiya sold a whole of f201 rubber tires, now their size is not realistic, so get shimizu tires. I already know what's next....
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