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Old 10-13-2011, 11:38 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
+1

I've always felt the rubber tires even starting with the F103 felt more like touring car tires that someone resized for F1 rather than making a new compound specifically for the lighter pan car format. The best rubber tires I found were the old Tamiya capped rubber where they just gave you a tube of a super soft/sticky rubber that you had to cut and glue on to a foam tire. They worked really well but were a pain to make and looked terrible. Proline started making a molded cap but went with much too hard of a rubber compound so it never worked well. The tires we have now are much too hard and way too heavy for the cars.
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The capped tires had massive grip, but didn't last long.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:42 AM   #137
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Foams- Purple fronts and pink rears problem solved!
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:43 AM   #138
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That depended a lot on how you made them. If you trued the foams down just small enough to where the tube did not stretch when you mounted it on the foam it would last a pretty good amount of time. If you kept the tires at the stock height they got stretched too thin and would wear out very fast.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:02 PM   #139
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F1 still doesn't have the right tires available in rubber.

They are getting close but they have to have something SUPER soft for the rear in order to get the car stuck without having to get the complete setup perfect and keep it that way.
Then once it is stuck you will need a couple different front tires to add just enough steering for different surfaces.
The F103 has the combos in foam to do just that and the rubber that was available for the 103, the type A, is long gone.

The F104 is terrible without the perfect tires.
The kit tires are both medium compound and the car is undriveable but with their option soft rears the car is almost mangeable but still not a racecar.
Pushes into corners and then loose out of corners.

Pit Shimzu is really close with their latest combos for the F104 and with some careful tuning they have some guys ALMOST up to speed but I'm not one of them, yet, cuz I haven't had to put down the F103 on foams completely, yet. That is happening very soon though and that is F ing sad!
I think if there was enough interest in F1, the tire supply would be a non-issue because most likely a manufacturer like Sweep will make the right tire. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a pre-mounted tire source available like there is already for TC?
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:20 PM   #140
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F1 still doesn't have the right tires available in rubber.

They are getting close but they have to have something SUPER soft for the rear in order to get the car stuck without having to get the complete setup perfect and keep it that way.
Then once it is stuck you will need a couple different front tires to add just enough steering for different surfaces.
The F103 has the combos in foam to do just that and the rubber that was available for the 103, the type A, is long gone.

The F104 is terrible without the perfect tires.
The kit tires are both medium compound and the car is undriveable but with their option soft rears the car is almost mangeable but still not a racecar.
Pushes into corners and then loose out of corners.

Pit Shimzu is really close with their latest combos for the F104 and with some careful tuning they have some guys ALMOST up to speed but I'm not one of them, yet, cuz I haven't had to put down the F103 on foams completely, yet. That is happening very soon though and that is F ing sad!
I personally think the F104 out of the box is fine. Sometimes it doesn't run well but it's the same for any f1 car with rubber tires.

My best rubber tires are RIDE and HPI as i have mentioned many times. If you want to go faster, try RIDE/HPI. If you wanna go safer (stable), use Pit Shimizu.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:38 PM   #141
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You know there is already a USGT and or RCGT type classes being raced around the country that is exactly what you are talking about. In my neck of the woods I know it’s not as great as Ohio but it was one of the larger classes this summer and so far in the Midwest All-Star Carpet series is USGT. GT type bodies.....21.5 motors and Blinky ESC's..spec tires. Tamiya and HPI both make the M3 body you are looking for....along with 911's. I know that this is a sedan class and it might be a little too simple for someone with your 12th scale background but it is out there.....maybe look outside your neighborhood to see what others are doing might help as well.

Now if someone would only make a national rule set for others to follow or use as a guideline that would be helpful too......
Ahhh, the grumpy musings of the USVTA/USGT faithful. I know the class exists. How could anyone not know about it the way you guys pimp it all over the forum... While looking outside my neighborhood, I have witnessed, and appreciated USGT races. The cars look great and aren't ridiculously slow. Problem is there's still no Slash style RTR, and the USGT races I've watched weren't held at an ALMS event.

I was just hoping Traxxas would give us a RTR USGT package that was decent, and then promote the hell out of it, like they do with all their products. The classes are fine, I was pointing out that TRAXXAS is the ONLY company that promotes, on any real scale, outside the industry. If they could take the USGT concept to FULL SCALE race fans the way they did with Slash, we might have something...............

The only problem with USGT and VTA is a newbie can't just walk into a hobbystore and walk out with a package.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:06 PM   #142
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Locally we tried to use box stock HPI F10's, but made a few mistakes.

- We were using silvercan only motors, and the stock gearing was overheating the motors.
- We were limited to rubber tires. The stock kit tires do not work on ozite carpet.

Actually the HPI F10 is a durable car, but it does have some problems.

- Stock motor plate is plastic. Will warp if the motor gets too hot. Aluminum upgrade is too expensive.
- Stock servo saver has too much slop. Super glue the servo saver solves this problem.

Since the HPI F10 uses standard hexes, you could use any touring car tire on them. We tried using the HPI Vintage tires (26mm front/31mm rear), which worked okay on carpet. The nice thing about the VTA tires was you had narrow fronts and wide rears.

You could also use Tamiya F201 tires with the HPI F10. The Type A tires actually worked pretty well on the F10 with firm inserts.


----------

I think if all the current F1 manufactures would design their cars to use standard hex wheel adapters on the front/rear, then it would help the class grow. You could run foam tires on carpet and keep the car low for high grip. You could then run larger diameter rubber tires outside for extra ground clearance and grip on low bit surfaces.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:00 PM   #143
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I think if there was enough interest in F1, the tire supply would be a non-issue because most likely a manufacturer like Sweep will make the right tire. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a pre-mounted tire source available like there is already for TC?
Sweep is/was working on a rubber 1/12th scale tire but I don't know if they continued with that idea or if it died. If they do come out with one that is good maybe they can make a F1 version as well.

When F1 was big in the past we had Ride, Tamiya, and Pit Shimizu making tires...yet all of them still feel and act more like a TC tire made smaller for F1 cars and really don't have the kind of grip I would like in a pan car like a F1. They worked...but only just.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:44 PM   #144
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Ahhh, the grumpy musings of the USVTA/USGT faithful. I know the class exists. How could anyone not know about it the way you guys pimp it all over the forum...

The only problem with USGT and VTA is a newbie can't just walk into a hobbystore and walk out with a package.
Nice my Pimp hand is strong then....

If said newbie is educated then they can surely walk into a LHS or go to a website and buy all they need to get a USGT or VTA car up and running. Itís not going to be in RTR form but it can still be purchased and put together. Much like how the majority of SCT racers out there now are not buying Slash trucks to race...they buy Losi, AE, Kyosho what ever but its not a Traxxas thatís being raced. If youíre a racer youíre going to get what you can race with. Traxxas selling the crap out of Slash trucks isnít bringing in racers....Traxxas is selling trucks that people can have fun with. I would bet that not even 10% of the Slash trucks sold ever see a race a track more then 2 times. Just like Im sure that HPI is selling way more Sprint or E10 RTR's then it will ever sell of its Hotbodies line of cars. I think people are blurring the line that The Slash is a cure and it needs to happen to onroad. When really its just the idea of SCT that has excited people not just the traxxas truck....maybe the same can hold true of USGT or any of the other like classes its the idea that needs to take off. Because really nothing new is needed...no new cars...no new parts...just a new idea with twist on racing and making it look real again.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:44 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Ahhh, the grumpy musings of the USVTA/USGT faithful. I know the class exists. How could anyone not know about it the way you guys pimp it all over the forum... While looking outside my neighborhood, I have witnessed, and appreciated USGT races. The cars look great and aren't ridiculously slow. Problem is there's still no Slash style RTR, and the USGT races I've watched weren't held at an ALMS event.

I was just hoping Traxxas would give us a RTR USGT package that was decent, and then promote the hell out of it, like they do with all their products. The classes are fine, I was pointing out that TRAXXAS is the ONLY company that promotes, on any real scale, outside the industry. If they could take the USGT concept to FULL SCALE race fans the way they did with Slash, we might have something...............

The only problem with USGT and VTA is a newbie can't just walk into a hobbystore and walk out with a package.
What?
Traxxass only promotes themselves to sell product to the unknowing masses. Their slash wasn't groundbreaking, they saw thundertech's product at the ihobby show and took their old centipede monstertruck and gave it a body and tire change. Stole the idea. Their rally car was a joke, as a year after its introduction they still don't have replacement bodies available (my son's pissed, but he had to have one). They produce toys, marketed to kids/bashers, and they openly say they're not a racing company and that their aim isn't to produce race car kits. They'd be the last manufacturer I'd want involved in USGT or anything else .................... and I thought this discussion was about F1???

Can we please get it back on-topic?
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:51 PM   #146
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Foams- Purple fronts and pink rears problem solved!
+1

I don't know what the obsession is with rubber tires, especially on lightweight cars like these F1's. As long as rightheight rules are in place, and people don't go nuts (or there are rules against) truing down foam to thin strips as seems to be the practice in 1/12th today, you should be able to get several days out of a proper set of foam tires.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #147
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Tamiya and HPI attend American LeMans and Indycar events at Long Beach, CA. Full size F1 racing doesn't appeal to main crowd in U.S. There isn't an American driver in F1. Fanbase for F1 is much larger in Europe and Asia.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by kaycerc View Post
+1

I don't know what the obsession is with rubber tires, especially on lightweight cars like these F1's. As long as rightheight rules are in place, and people don't go nuts (or there are rules against) truing down foam to thin strips as seems to be the practice in 1/12th today, you should be able to get several days out of a proper set of foam tires.
I for one have an "obsession" with rubber tires because I dont want to spend the money on all the foams. I dont want to have to go buy a tire truer. I dont want to change gearing because my tires are slightly different this weekend. Etc etc. There is a lot more hassle that comes with foam tires. A lot of people dont want to deal with that. Our local club will be running F1 this winter with rubber tires for exactly those reasons. Its one less thing people have to buy. We have directly borrowed the UF1 series rules for the realistic class. http://uf1series.com/rules.html

If we get enough people and enough interest to run an open class as well then we will. But its no fun to split up a small grid to have 2 even smaller grids.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:20 PM   #149
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I dont want to have to go buy a tire truer.
Only reason to buy a truer is to slim down premounts to thin strips, like they do in 12th scale today. Have a sidewall requirement and it does away with the problem.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:59 PM   #150
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Only reason to buy a truer is to slim down premounts to thin strips, like they do in 12th scale today. Have a sidewall requirement and it does away with the problem.
Hooray! Somebody that knows the deal. That's why we are going to rubber only in 2012. I have never liked how they cut the 1/12 cars. Even before the race all you can see is rim,glue, and a small patch of foam. If there is to be a rule change in racing it should be that you finish with a full tire on any foam tire car.

Thank you Kaycerc
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