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Old 07-03-2005, 07:15 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by komkit
Regardless, you want one......I can see it in your eyes....you keep looking over my shoulder
Someday I might buy one. For now I have to use what I have.
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Old 07-03-2005, 10:57 AM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by komkit
Thatís why I was just wondering. To me 3mV/pack seems a little bit too low. If I was to charging a 6 cells pack with 3mV threshold setting. Meaning 3mV divided by 6 cells = 0.05mV. Now thatís 50 microvolt per cell. Even we bumped up the threshold to 6mV/pack still that gives us 1000 microvolt. We will all have to have IDENTICAL characteristic cells in our pack. It doesnít take much for a single cell to drop 1 or 2 mV during its peak. Its only takes 2 cells to drop more than the other 4 cells.

The step charging is pretty much guaranty 1 and 2 steps your pack will never fault peak. But what about the 3 step? So your cells in that particular pack have to be a top notch or a perfect matched, otherwise you might be having 2 bad apples out of 6 apples. That is if the threshold is setting TOO LOW.

Individual cell charging and monitoring system is the way to go I guess. MMCM is the way to go as of right now, Iíll experimenting some more on the threshold settings. In my opinion Iíd rather cooked my packs then not having enough juice.
03 does in fact equal .003, which does seem very low. But the MMCM is very different from any other charger in the RC market. A 30 setting will equal a .03 on, say a turbo 35, but this setting is rather high for the CM. The CM has such a pure linear current that it does not utilize a high cutoff setting. This is especially useful when charging newer NIMH cells, such as the IB cell.

You can use the same cutoff values as you would on other chargers, but the cells will get hotter. The added performance gain of the pure linear current seems to far outweigh an increase in delta peak, though. The battery's voltage will also not fluctuate as the battery peaks.

You can see all this as you charge...Say a battery reaches 9.134v before it starts to drop off. If your delta peak is set at 06, it will fall to 9.128, and the CM will stop the charge. The voltage will more than likely drop consistently, and not fluctuate, i.e. 9.134-9.133-9.132 etc. You can watch the arrow next to the voltage to see whether it is increasing or decreasing at any particular time. With other chargers, it is very common for the voltage to fluctuate at the end of the charge, i.e. 9.13-9.14-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.11 and so on (and this is only reading to two decimal places).

For more punch, you can increase the delta peak value on the cell master. 03 is a rather safe setting. Some go anywhere from 10-24 for competitive racing. You should also adjust this based on the ambient temperature and whether or not you are using a heat-sink or warming tray.

Here are the settings I like to use for competitive racing in hot weather. Keep in mind that I sometimes like to increase the amperage in the 3rd step when using the battery heatsink.
GP cell/mod racing/battery heatsink: 06-07
GP cell/mod racing/no heatsink: 05-06
GP cell/19t racing/battery heatsink: 10
GP cell/19t racing/no heatsink: 08 or 09
IB cell/mod racing/battery heatsink: 05

When the ambient temperature drops a significant amount, I will usually increase these values a little.

Hope this helps. BTW komkit, 05 seemed to be a good setting for the IB cell. I was using the heatsink, though. If you don't have a heatsink, you should probably start with an 04 if you are in hot weather.
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Old 07-03-2005, 12:11 PM   #558
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how many amp will you used to charge in 3step?
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Old 07-03-2005, 03:13 PM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guo Chean
how many amp will you used to charge in 3step?
Either 4, 4.5, or 5 amps in the third step. Usually 4 for mod, and 4.5 or 5 for 19t.
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Old 07-03-2005, 03:52 PM   #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun
Either 4, 4.5, or 5 amps in the third step. Usually 4 for mod, and 4.5 or 5 for 19t.
thanks for giving me information i may go to GA find you and Kumpol play rc in future
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Old 07-04-2005, 10:32 AM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun
Hope this helps. BTW komkit, 05 seemed to be a good setting for the IB cell. I was using the heatsink, though. If you don't have a heatsink, you should probably start with an 04 if you are in hot weather.

Arun, thanks for the info. I'm indoor most of the time, so the ambient temperature stayed the same.

Got 2 IB packs from Thunder RC last week, they were awsome. In fact I just placed an order for 2 more

With IB3800 its take a while to charge them, so 1 more MMCM is coming

Again, thanks.
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Old 07-04-2005, 11:09 AM   #562
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I'm little confused.
You people are saying that you prefer charging your IB with step charging? Can you post your settings?

What exactly are the benefits using step charging? Better runtime, punch?
I'm interested on mod racing mainly with 12 turn motors

Thank you

Nick
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Old 07-04-2005, 12:45 PM   #563
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Here is one profile for 3700/3800. The newer cells seem to be more sensitive to overcharge, so I would not set the delta peak any higher than 06 or the temp any higher than 48. It is important that the 3700 and 3800 batteries peak below 130 deg Fahrenheit.

Step 1
3050mA 7.0A
Flex off

Step 2
3080 0.2A
Flex off

Step 3
4900mA 4.0A
Flex off
Temp 48
delta peak 05
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Old 07-04-2005, 01:12 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnick
I'm little confused.
You people are saying that you prefer charging your IB with step charging? Can you post your settings?

What exactly are the benefits using step charging? Better runtime, punch?
I'm interested on mod racing mainly with 12 turn motors

Thank you

Nick
Step charging is being utilized all over the world now, especially for mod racing. World class drivers like Surikarn and Hara are using it...some of our profiles have come direct from them.
Right off the bat, you will notice that your car will hold it's peak power much further into the race. Step charging gives benefits in runtime, punch, and the life of the battery, especially when combined with the SL current of the Cell Master.
When I first started using step charging with my old 3300's, packs that could not make runtime were all of the sudden making runtime, and performing like newer race packs. When I use it with my newer packs, I am more than pleased with the results .


05=.005v on the cell master
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Old 07-04-2005, 04:02 PM   #565
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Default Discharging with cell-master

I just purchased the cell master, and I must say this charger is awesome!!
I have been reading this forum and I have recieved a great wealth of tips on how to charge GP3300 and GP3700, although I still have questions on battery Dis-charging on the cell master. It has been explained to me by several Racers at my local track that you should discharge your packs down to 5.4 volts 6 cell packs with a 30 amp load, rather than any lower current something to do with loosing runtime and punch. So I guess what I am asking is, do any of you use the cell master 10 amp discharge for taking your batteries down to 5.4 volts per pack as to find how much runtime there is left after your run. And finally if so, what settings do you use.

I Thank You all in Advance for your response!!

Best Regards

Alex
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Old 07-05-2005, 05:46 PM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex C
I just purchased the cell master, and I must say this charger is awesome!!
I have been reading this forum and I have recieved a great wealth of tips on how to charge GP3300 and GP3700, although I still have questions on battery Dis-charging on the cell master. It has been explained to me by several Racers at my local track that you should discharge your packs down to 5.4 volts 6 cell packs with a 30 amp load, rather than any lower current something to do with loosing runtime and punch. So I guess what I am asking is, do any of you use the cell master 10 amp discharge for taking your batteries down to 5.4 volts per pack as to find how much runtime there is left after your run. And finally if so, what settings do you use.

I Thank You all in Advance for your response!!

Best Regards

Alex
The discharge on the CM is mostly useful only for dumping a pack at the end of a run. If the pack has more than say a minute or so of run-time left, it would be best to use a 20 or 30 amp discharge rate. It's all about keeping the pack "trained".
If significant run-time is remaining, we like to use the 30 amp dischargers offered by integy; they make them either with or without a cutoff.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:41 PM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arun
03 does in fact equal .003, which does seem very low. But the MMCM is very different from any other charger in the RC market. A 30 setting will equal a .03 on, say a turbo 35, but this setting is rather high for the CM. The CM has such a pure linear current that it does not utilize a high cutoff setting. This is especially useful when charging newer NIMH cells, such as the IB cell.

You can use the same cutoff values as you would on other chargers, but the cells will get hotter. The added performance gain of the pure linear current seems to far outweigh an increase in delta peak, though. The battery's voltage will also not fluctuate as the battery peaks.

You can see all this as you charge...Say a battery reaches 9.134v before it starts to drop off. If your delta peak is set at 06, it will fall to 9.128, and the CM will stop the charge. The voltage will more than likely drop consistently, and not fluctuate, i.e. 9.134-9.133-9.132 etc. You can watch the arrow next to the voltage to see whether it is increasing or decreasing at any particular time. With other chargers, it is very common for the voltage to fluctuate at the end of the charge, i.e. 9.13-9.14-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.13-9.12-9.11 and so on (and this is only reading to two decimal places).

For more punch, you can increase the delta peak value on the cell master. 03 is a rather safe setting. Some go anywhere from 10-24 for competitive racing. You should also adjust this based on the ambient temperature and whether or not you are using a heat-sink or warming tray.

Here are the settings I like to use for competitive racing in hot weather. Keep in mind that I sometimes like to increase the amperage in the 3rd step when using the battery heatsink.
GP cell/mod racing/battery heatsink: 06-07
GP cell/mod racing/no heatsink: 05-06
GP cell/19t racing/battery heatsink: 10
GP cell/19t racing/no heatsink: 08 or 09
IB cell/mod racing/battery heatsink: 05

When the ambient temperature drops a significant amount, I will usually increase these values a little.

Hope this helps. BTW komkit, 05 seemed to be a good setting for the IB cell. I was using the heatsink, though. If you don't have a heatsink, you should probably start with an 04 if you are in hot weather.

most totally agree with you. You are an expert of CM.
One thing,
Compared to other chargers, CM supply exact current same as the value on the display. Many other chargers charge with slightly lower amp than actual.
(I think they didn't count the current for cooling fans or LCD display etc. or wrong calibration something)
If you set two of different chargers at same current by one current meter and then you charge same battery, you will see Cell Master gets hot slower than other one. It is caused by pure current.
Unstable current makes batterie's voltage up and down, so you cannot expect 3mV cutoff.
Super linear current and 16bit AD part are CM's the most powerful weapons of CM rather than other convenient fuctions.

Ryan/MuchMore
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Old 07-06-2005, 08:01 AM   #568
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Does the CM store the settings only after it starts to charge?
I just got a CM and was playing with setting the charge parameters, but didn't let it really start charging because I didn't have a battery pack connected to it. After I switched the unit off and later back on again, it lost the charge parameters that I set. Is this normal? Thanks.
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:01 PM   #569
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That is not normal. When I got mine I setup my charging profiles at home and then shut it off and took it to the track and all the profiles were still there. Maybe you shut it off while you were still in the setup mode. You might need to back out to the main menu before it saves the info.
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Old 07-06-2005, 03:51 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
Does the CM store the settings only after it starts to charge?
I just got a CM and was playing with setting the charge parameters, but didn't let it really start charging because I didn't have a battery pack connected to it. After I switched the unit off and later back on again, it lost the charge parameters that I set. Is this normal? Thanks.
edited.... I got your question now....like the man (Ryan Lee) said...

Last edited by kumpol; 07-06-2005 at 10:17 PM.
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