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Old 09-19-2011, 09:22 PM   #16
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Yes, XRay came out with the ECS for a reason. They DO reduce front end chatter and provide smoother power delivery at large steering angles.

Tune your car where you don't need an extreme steering angle, and that chatter is reduced. Or, spend $100+, make no other changes, and reduce the chatter without learning anything other than how to spend money.

I've got my car handling quite well with standard axles.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:30 PM   #17
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Xray came out with their Ecs drives for a reason, and if you don't run them, you will have chatter !!! Let's not start giving the newbies the wrong info, and try to really help them this time Harry , if you can put your insecurities aside !!!!
It felt like it was up way high and scating around and taking a lot of time or effort to transit from left to right.

It didn't feel dug in and snappy...lol

Thanks
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:36 PM   #18
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It felt like it was up way high and scating around and taking a lot of time or effort to transit from left to right.

It didn't feel dug in and snappy...lol

Thanks
A TC is always going to feel a bit more lumbering than a 1/12 pan, but if the car felt like it was on top of the track, that also points to a setup issue for your driving style.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:41 PM   #19
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A TC is always going to feel a bit more lumbering than a 1/12 pan, but if the car felt like it was on top of the track, that also points to a setup issue for your driving style.
I understand it's like driving a 3lb rugby football around the track...lol...so yea I am very curious about a good 17.5 setup for me

I'd rather have it handle squirly and agile than like roadkill that I have to take out for drinks to do what I want ...lol

I use very little wheel and throttle

I look forward to that answer
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:00 PM   #20
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I get home in a couple days from being overseas, then I'll post up my current T3'11 asphalt setup.

My last time home, I spent the entire month concentrating on getting a good balance on the car when driving with smooth, minimal, steering input, and smoothing out my throttle use. I figured it's gotta help to get in that habit for my 1/12 when the winter season starts, might as well help my TC get around the track fast with a similar attitude.

It's got enough steering that the most people would probably spin the car out on the first couple of laps, but when you use some finesse, it carries a lot of corner speed, changes directions well, squares up nicely on corner exit, while maintaining loads of steering, and laid down the fastest main I've run in a LONG time. Still have some work to do catching the fastest guys, but I'm on the same lap now.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:54 PM   #21
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$100 is nothing to get things running right !!! It is possible to make the cvds work when using little steering input, but you will always wonder how fast you could have been with the better drives, and hopefully that wondering won't be because you lost by that last 0.1sec the Ecs drives could have shaved off your time ! It's always best to do things right the first time around, whatever the cost !!!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:18 AM   #22
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Yes, XRay came out with the ECS for a reason. They DO reduce front end chatter and provide smoother power delivery at large steering angles.
Just as an aside, Xray didn't "invent" the ECS style dual-cardian joint
First I recall is Losi with the original JRXS, mainly due to the very short front driveshafts... well before Xray with the ECS
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:39 AM   #23
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Just as an aside, Xray didn't "invent" the ECS style dual-cardian joint
First I recall is Losi with the original JRXS, mainly due to the very short front driveshafts... well before Xray with the ECS
You're right. Companies "borrow" ideas from each other continually.

The dual joint shafts on the JRXS were to relieve binding on such a short distance, but I believe XRay was among, if not THE first to market them specifically for use with a front spool.

Either way, they're still not "required" for a fast car.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:48 AM   #24
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Not required for a fast car , but just required for a FASTER car !!! Losi did come out with their lcd's first, and everybody else followed wisely because it made their cars faster ! Hopefully the newbie here will also take a few steps in the same direction ....
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:47 AM   #25
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Tune your car where you don't need an extreme steering angle, and that chatter is reduced. Or, spend $100+, make no other changes, and reduce the chatter without learning anything other than how to spend money.

I've got my car handling quite well with standard axles.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:09 AM   #26
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Not required for a fast car , but just required for a FASTER car !!! Losi did come out with their lcd's first, and everybody else followed wisely because it made their cars faster ! Hopefully the newbie here will also take a few steps in the same direction ....
If they were required, every car maker would have a product on the streets. Most of the "Pro" racers seem to do plenty fine without them, which means that the cars are more than capable.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:38 PM   #27
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I follow logic , and reason. Unlike you, I don't suck up to the Pros !!!! There is alot of that going on in Rc , but it ain't for me , I have my morals !!!!
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:41 PM   #28
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I follow logic , and reason. Unlike you, I don't suck up to the Pros !!!! There is alot of that going on in Rc , but it ain't for me , I have my morals !!!!
Heck, I've never even met a pro RC car driver. Some locally sponsored guys, yeah, but never a real life, honest to God, pays the bills with winnings PRO RC car driver.

When did this become personal for you? Ever notice that every thread you post in ends the same way?

Oh, and your !!!! button is still stuck.

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Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
Yes, XRay came out with the ECS for a reason. They DO reduce front end chatter and provide smoother power delivery at large steering angles.

Tune your car where you don't need an extreme steering angle, and that chatter is reduced. Or, spend $100+, make no other changes, and reduce the chatter without learning anything other than how to spend money.

I've got my car handling quite well with standard axles.

Harry's whole point is that there are differences in set up and driving style. Driving style A may not always match with set up 1. In fact, set up 1 may be better suited to driving style C, so it's up to the individual driver to know when to change the car (if the set up is not appropriate to the track and conditions) and when to change the driver (when the car set up IS appropriate to the track and conditions, but a different touch is required to harness that potential A main win.

Simply throwing so called "fast" parts at a car no more makes is a "fast" car than standing in a parking garage makes you a truck.

Moreover, many set ups, especially in Blinky (where preserving corner speed is paramount) benefit from being closer to the edge of control and with reduced steering angles, thus reducing or eleminating the need for ECS drive shafts.

If they were required for a spool, if they were required to be "fast", if they were required to win titles (local or national), EVERY car manufacturer would have a stock offering if for no other reason than marketing and selling you some BS part because they've convinced you that you "NEED" it.

Large steering angles are prone to scrub speed. Set up your car or drive it so that you don't need large steering angles, and any chatter that you may have becomes a non-issue.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:44 PM   #29
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i find with the ECS axles i am slower in fact , and i think this comes from the lack of resistance the ECS gives .

The chatter from the normal axles scrubbs speed off on turn in , so there is no need to brake or let off early for the corners , I tested them back to back in my T3 and i was 0.2sec a lap quicker over an 18 second lap with normal axles because i wasn't over braking at every corner

Just my findings
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:49 PM   #30
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I follow logic , and reason. Unlike you, I don't suck up to the Pros !!!! There is alot of that going on in Rc , but it ain't for me , I have my morals !!!!
This guy Larry of Team Power who loaned me the car for the day was very nice and seemed quite knowledgeable but next time I'm at the track to buy my radio I will ask him about these "special" axels. Don't get me wrong the car wasn't that bad just not fast into a corner enough to keep up and not be all on the edge of my seat every corner hence every lap

Maybe it was an RC thing that would have helped it steer and seem more planted. Wow are their a lot of variables in TC

Perhaps we can agree that from one build to another build something secret or untried is done then we evolve to a better build

Right now seems everyone is using spools but before they also tried diff and one way so if or when a build "shift" happens we'll see another change that one or more pro's tested then implemented

Look at the gear diff that was in the TC3 now it's what most fast guys are running sometimes even in ft diff with heavy goop...lol

So it's an interesting phenomenon when a driver takes a chance on a new set up and it pays off but just prior it was undiscovered then it becomes mainstream and shows up in most kits...lol

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