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Old 09-03-2011, 10:44 PM   #16
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One that I would like to see made is the Cruze in 190. Blitz and some others make 200 mm but no 190's. It'd be great to use a body for a car that's used in real Touring car races. Like the BTCC and WTCC. I just don't get why they can't make one a bit narrower.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:54 PM   #17
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I agree with with most of what Terry.sc has said, although one point has been missed... licensing.

I remember a long time ago Dale Epp coming on here and talking about the licensing situation, with basically any auto MFG's getting wise to the fact that is their visual representation is used, they want a slice of the pie.... for a small company like PF this makes it prohibitive to keep developing new shells, whilst a bigger (and we're talking relatively here) MFG like HPI/Tamiya can stomach most of these costs, as they are selling the shell on the basis of the scale looks.

Add into the arguments that the PF shells simply work the best for top end TC, and it does become an argument of diminishing returns for developing new shells. Having said that, I'm sure Dale isn't sitting on his laurels. The P37 does seem to be picking up now, and having 3 shells all set to go is a great idea...

In general terms, the latest 190mm body I've seen released was the Ride Subaru GT300... but by all accounts thats got even more steering than an LTC-R!

As for the scale thing... it's easy, go get an F1
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:03 PM   #18
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Default Just to clarify

I'm not on the scale bandwagon, I just think the body looks cool and apparently it's working well for Nitro.
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:02 AM   #19
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Just interested in comments on the rear wing in relation to endplates. The bodies come with the extra bits in the front wheel cutouts which on the LTCR seem to be endplates.
Anyone use these or think they make any improvement? I thought they may help the durability of the rear wing if anyhting by thickening the side end plates and preventing them from cracking on the new lightweight bodies.
I think the biggest improvement in bodies has been the move to the lightweight bodies, but in doing so i have found it essential to run a third central front body post to prevent the wheel arches cracking
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:00 PM   #20
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I always use the wing side dams now. I used to leave them off when I needed a body in a hurry, but I feel the car doesn't wander on the straights as much with the extra end plates installed, which makes corner entry after a straight slightly more predictable.

Making sure you have no nicks in the lexan for the wing has more effect on durability than having the extra thickness on the side dams, though. If your trimming looks like a pre-school project, it's going to crack no matter how much reinforcing you put in place.


I, for one, kind of like that 190mm body options have slowed a bit. It's a lot easier to test available bodies when you don't have a new one adding to the mix every month.

As for PF bodies, I ran the R9-R for quite a while on tight layout indoor carpet, loads of steering, but very nervous. Then I ran the LTCR, and the car felt more balanced and planted than the R9-9, but doesn't like to change directions too quickly. I'm currently running the P37, which I love, great turn-in, stable rear, and feels very nimble and reactive changing directions.

I've never really cared for the Mazda6 bodies from any brand, they've always felt too "safe" for me. Decent aero balance, without really planting either end of the car.

I pretty much only run PF bodies due to availability. I wouldn't be opposed to trying other brands, but bodies aren't something I internet order too much, since I can get a body that I know works from the LHS pretty well any time I need a new one.

With the current trend toward lightweight bodies, I like that the lightweight bodies don't crack as easily, but they can tear pretty bad. The smoother the body can be trimmed, the less likely it is to happen. I also don't mind running the 5th body post on my car, because I've noticed my bodies don't rub the track as much anymore, which means before air was pushing them down and flexing the nose, which has got to hurt aero downforce if the body is deforming at speed.

Either way, I really only test different bodies once a year or so, if a new offering is available, otherwise, I stick with what I'm comfortable with and just work on setup.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:11 PM   #21
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Can someone summarize the differences in handling between the Protoform Mazda 6, Mazdaspeed 6, and LTC?
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
2wd buggy is still the biggest off road class in Europe, short course racers are in the minority. Popularity of the class over others is irrelevant to the point being made, that there's no point in Associated spending money developing a B4 replacement when it is still winning.
Well it isn't here on this side of the pond. The world doesn't revolve around the EU.

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Because the TCX is popular at your track doesn't mean it's popular elsewhere and in the world at large. Certainly here in the UK Tamiya TRFs are considerably more popular and the local distributor doesn't even import them. Remember for every single race chassis sold there are at least 50 basher cars and trucks sold, and I know that most large r/c retailers will sell the Cup Racer while very few places stock the TCX. I wouldn't be surprised if the even HPI Switch was more popular than the TCX.
The TCX is not just popular at my track but also on my side of the pond. Tamiya's are only popular only for the sake of the TCS races.

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If your complaint is that people are using bodies that look the same year after year, then Protoform and the like aren't going to produce new bodies that are much different from what is currently available, they know what works best on a touring car chassis. New bodies are going to look exactly the same as currently, but with differently shaped grille and headlights. You can do that yourself with paint.
If so then why do 200mm TC shells have so much selection in both looks and shape? (ie. Blitz) Stop trying to make this a platform to defend Protoform because it isn't a thread about them. They are not the end all and be all for TC bodies. In fact, I run the Orcan/ Xceed A5 and it does quite well for me.

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Your complaint is that we are using bodies that look the same as they did years ago, while we are all running chassis that look the same as they did years ago and they are the same as everyone else. Anything that is different such as the Team Magic E4RS is generally ignored just because it is different. The same happens with bodies, just look around your local club and I would be surprised if there is a wide range of the currently available shells being used, usually it's just two or three types at the most. Body manufacturers making a wider range of shells will make no difference to the number of different bodies being used at any club as people will stick to what they know works well.
As a matter of fact I do have an E4 but I had to go with the XRay as my main car simply for the availability of local and online support vs. the lack of if for Team Magic. And your point on this one only leads back to my original complaint on the lack of selection, hence that is why there are only two or three types at most because there are only two or three types to choose from.



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There is no comparison with full size cars. Full size cars have healthy competition between manufacturers and while some will replace their old car with the new version (or even a newer model of their current version) most people will look around and see what's available from the other manufacturers. A full size comparison with the body situation would be if 90% of the cars on the road were a mixture of Ford Focus and Ford Fiesta, depending on drivers needs, with the most of the rest being Dodges and Buicks that looked very similar to the Fords but didn't drive as well or were as comfortable as the Fords. Then throw in a handful of Hondas and Nissans that you had to import from Japan and that's it. Unless you are one of the few that deliberately choose something different you will have a Ford and when it needs replacing you will just buy another Ford, just like everyone else. Ford only needs to slap a new grille and lights on every few years to encourage people to buy their car sooner, but they know they aren't going to lose any customers when you have the best product and the whole market sewn up.
What makes you think everyone likes to drive a Ford? Again, maybe on your side of the pond. I drive a Chrysler and its plenty comfortable and doesn't look anything like a Ford.

Once upon a time the body to have was the Andy's Stratus. It took quite some time before that body was dethrowned by something from Protoform which was the Mazda. Yet the Mazda looks nothing like the Stratus from Andy's. So your argument is........ There needs to be some progress and as the saying goes "you got to break a few eggs to make an omlette."

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Translating the real full size world to model car bodies, Protoform would have competition and have to keep on developing new bodies to keep ahead of everyone else, and tech charts would have 5+ different manufacturers in the list, not just everyone running the same shell. Unfortunately we have the GBS that limits what shape touring car bodies must be, in the full size world that's a bit like saying every car built must now have the same shape and dimensions as the Ford Focus to be allowed on the road. The GBS does guarantee that all touring car bodies will resemble a four door tourer instead of a wedge with a bubble for the roof but it does mean other makes have to compete with the fact that people won't buy them because they aren't Protoform.
All this talk about GBS. It may matter to you and the events you go to but it doesn't matter here. Also the majority of buyers of hobby products aren't hardcore racers going to sanctioned events. Many choose to only race at the club level local to them who don't care about GBS. All they care is something that looks cool, works okay and is accepted at their local track within reason. And again why all this Protoform fandom? Nothing against Dale. I like his designs in the past and have used many of them but really, Protoform is not the end all and be all for onroad bodies. Stop making this thead into that. Its a discussion about onroad TC bodies in general, specifically 190mm. I don't have this problem with 200mm, plenty of selection there and many of them work.

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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
You can't blame the stagnation of touring cars as a whole on the fact Protoform isn't tweaking one of their current body shapes each month. It's stagnating because the class has matured and is likely to stay that way for some time.
Stop making this thread as an issue with Protoform. They are not the only ones producing onroad TC bodies. Nobody is blaming them for anything. They can make whatever they want based on their own reasons to be in business. This is about 190mm TC bodies in general. Protoform is only one of them as an example.
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tcdrvr2 View Post
One that I would like to see made is the Cruze in 190. Blitz and some others make 200 mm but no 190's. It'd be great to use a body for a car that's used in real Touring car races. Like the BTCC and WTCC. I just don't get why they can't make one a bit narrower.
I have used this body in 200mm and would also like to see it become available in 190mm. I've also used the Altis which also worked quite well in 200mm and I like to see that as well in 190mm.
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Old 09-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #24
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This is why I squirreled away a couple M3, MG and Vectra bodies. Heck, I still have a Calibra from 1997...
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:44 AM   #25
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Can someone summarize the differences in handling between the Protoform Mazda 6, Mazdaspeed 6, and LTC?
Anyone?
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:37 PM   #26
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Anyone?
You should PM some of the posters on this thread who seem to know about those PF bodies so well. That or start a new thread asking that question.
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Old 09-06-2011, 01:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Can someone summarize the differences in handling between the Protoform Mazda 6, Mazdaspeed 6, and LTC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
Anyone?
I've only run the Mazda 6 a handful of times, and the MazdaSpeed 6 once.

Like I said in my earlier post, the Mazda 6 just feels too "safe" for me. It's got reasonable downforce, and if the car is going to push or get loose, it seems to do so with a lot of warning. The MazdaSpeed 6 seems to have a touch more steering, but will also break loose slowly, from what I remember.

The LTC-R seems to have about the same balance as the Mazda, but with more overall downforce. If you do loose traction at the front, I've noticed my car do a slight head wiggle before the car starts to push, which gives you a chance to relax the steering and gain some rotation. If you lose traction in the rear, the rear will come around pretty quickly, but not so fast that you'll lose it every time.
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