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Old 08-23-2011, 07:48 PM   #31
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well i think blinky has made racing [email protected] our track in dayton the top 6 are in seconds with in each other...so at any giving race you got 6 ppl that are able to win & the ones thats on the bottom half are only a half of a lap down...i think blinky is more for giving on your tires parts & electronics..(all summer i been running the same set of tires)..until last week..so thats 10+ races days & practice...the only thing i kinda wish for is that @ big races they used A hand out lock motor & a non-adjustable esc..but im cool with the way it is now...IMO
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:50 PM   #32
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Personally , the only thing I don't like about boost is that you need a laptop. Most who run blinky are on a budget, and might not be computer inclined at all. The same way you can't stop progress in the boost world, you can't stop newbies with low to no boost skills from having a chance to participate ! Blinky is the only way for them, not that they won't graduate to the Mod boost world anytime soon ...
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:42 PM   #33
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not all escs require a laptop to adjust boost, to install the software in the esc yes, but not to adjust it.

i had typed out this long ass responce to boosted vs non boosted then realized it was completly off topic and would piss some people off so I deleted it.

on topic, YES it does matter which esc you chose they are NOT all the same. I can go faster using brand x vs brand Y and the motor runs cooler. no i won't give names, I suggest you go to your local track, watch the fast guys, and the slow guys, (sometimes the slow guys have more power, just can't drive worth a damn) and figure out which power combo fits your need best.

good luck and happy motoring
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Enter blinky, MASSIVE roll-outs, high temps, and invariably more wear on electronic components. Blinky is probably easier to understand for many, but after they realize how fast they're going through equipment, they'll be just as fed up as they were with boost.

So, now that blinky is upon us, what will the new "excuse/technological nightmare" be when the detractors don't win the A-main?
Why does every thread have to turn into this debate….damn.

In my neck of the woods....I have seen more electronic failures this summer racing boosted ESC then I did all last winter racing blinky….this is all in Sedan 17.5.

You are right blinky is easier to understand and that’s what is bringing people back into racing. Its when all the boost and software updates that came out there was a max exodus from on-road. We ran a whole winter season on blinky in sedan and we had more people racing then we did the year before with open ESC. The largest growing classes around are the classes that use the blinky ESC's. The reason is they are easy to use.

Racing is racing its not one or the other that isn’t going to make racing any closer than the next its just going to make it easier to handle for the masses...period.

Like any electronic device not all are created equal...so one might have a different feel then the next but there is a lot of personal perception and preference. I have seen just about all of them work and win.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:50 PM   #35
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well back in the day you had on resistance and that's how you bought a speed control. the tekin 300 had .0015 on resistance and the tekin 600 had .0009 and then the tekin 700 had .0005 and that's what I ran in 4wd dirt oval with 7 cells and a black magic 12 quad... so what's the on resistance of all the current blinky speedos should be your question.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:04 PM   #36
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Why does every thread have to turn into this debate….damn.

In my neck of the woods....I have seen more electronic failures this summer racing boosted ESC then I did all last winter racing blinky….this is all in Sedan 17.5.

You are right blinky is easier to understand and that’s what is bringing people back into racing. Its when all the boost and software updates that came out there was a max exodus from on-road. We ran a whole winter season on blinky in sedan and we had more people racing then we did the year before with open ESC. The largest growing classes around are the classes that use the blinky ESC's. The reason is they are easy to use.

Racing is racing its not one or the other that isn’t going to make racing any closer than the next its just going to make it easier to handle for the masses...period.

Like any electronic device not all are created equal...so one might have a different feel then the next but there is a lot of personal perception and preference. I have seen just about all of them work and win.
Kevin, I understand that everyone's experiences may vary. I have two years of boosted racing without a SINGLE electronic failure. Matter of fact, I made the main at every Grand Slam race last year with THE FIRST duo 1 and Tekin RS Pro I ever purchased. Those who pushed boost past "the limit" will eventually do the same with blinky rollout. It is inevitable. I just don't like running a motor with the timing twisted all the way up, and a huge gear, just to go as fast as the other guys, temping a 12th scale motor and seeing 170+ degrees, when I used to come off the track at 140, and turning laps .2 better. There is NO doubt that heat is damaging to electronics, so obviously running things hotter is more damaging. This is not debatable. You cannot idiot proof electronics, and those who push too far will always let the smoke out of something.

Those who quit because they blew stuff up running boosted and weren't competitive, will quit again because they will blow things up in blinky, and still not be competitive. This unfortunately has been true of On-Road for the twenty-five years I've been involved. No amount of spec can save those who lose interest because they can't set-up a car, or drive as well as the A-mainers. The majority of people who race on-road for an extended period of time do so because of the challenges it provides, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, that pool of racers has always been small.

If ya wanna run an "easier" class, that's what VTA and USGT were designed for, and I think they offer beginners a great platform to learn chassis tuning and driving skills, then if they move to boosted it's just a matter of learning how to set-up a speedo.

Of course this rant comes from someone who only races 12th scale and WGT, which are the two classes that actually got SLOWER when we went brushless and lipo. If you guys were running 1s sedan, you'd beg for boost.........
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:59 AM   #37
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well back in the day you had on resistance and that's how you bought a speed control. the tekin 300 had .0015 on resistance and the tekin 600 had .0009 and then the tekin 700 had .0005 and that's what I ran in 4wd dirt oval with 7 cells and a black magic 12 quad... so what's the on resistance of all the current blinky speedos should be your question.
I think I still have a 600 and a 700 sitting somewhere in a box of old electronics. I still have a couple of 15x5 B&Rs from back in my oval days.

In regards to "blinky" vs boosted, I disagree that "blinky" makes you slower. So far racing has been much better for me in TC running "blinky". As said, the problem with boosted is that there are so many different parameters to choose from and combinations of adjustments to decide when setting up the speed control. Some have an appetite for this but many don't.

At WCRC, on a practice night, I ran with some others who were using boosted on their 17.5. Although they were faster on the straight, that is the only place they were fast. Because of their speed, they would constantly overshoot the turn at the end of the straight and I would duck in on the inside of them having more power on the in field. Not only that the boosted guys were constantly trying to adjust their setups on their computer.

I find that the car runs smoother and more controllable in "blinky" vs boosted. When the boost comes on, it is unsettling. It seems the car handles completely different and the weight transfer resulting from this is so tremendous it changes the balance of the car. Of course this is like having a car go from "stock" performance to "mod" performance instantaneosly and we all know that a car setup for handling "stock" performance can not work with "mod" performance. Thats why cars running "mod" have completely different setups than "stock".

If you're gonna have a "spec" class, then "blinky" is the only way to go. There will always be differences in brand X vs brand Y in electronics but those differences in "blinky" are subtle enough to be overcomed through better driving. However, given Randy's comments, I think I might finally move into mod TC after running "spec"/"stock" all these years.

To Randy Pike, are there any plans for Tekin to offer a "budget" non-boost speed control? Currently one of your main competitors offers three different models with a street price that is under $100. Will Tekin be competing in that segment?
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:15 AM   #38
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At WCRC, on a practice night, I ran with some others who were using boosted on their 17.5. Although they were faster on the straight, that is the only place they were fast. Because of their speed, they would constantly overshoot the turn at the end of the straight and I would duck in on the inside of them having more power on the in field.
Once again, You passed them because they couldn't drive, not because you were faster. A PROPERLY set up boosted car will be at least as fast in the infield, and FASTER on the straight than blinky, because a boosted car when properly set-up, has all the low-end punch of blinky, with the benefit of boost on the straight. Of course, if all you do is set your ESC up for the straight, you'll obviously lose out on the infield. It's all about balance.

Blinky has it's place. VTA, USGT, and other SPEC classes are very well suited to blinky. I just don't feel that blinky is best for every single class but MOD. In Mod they run boost and they are silly fast. Everyone is complaining that noone wants to move up to Mod, but why would they, when there's no class that offers the kind of training necessary to reach that level? If every class that's designed to feed into the Mod class, becomes a slower, technology limited class, how is anyone supposed to develop the skills required to move up? The jump from the current "Stock" classes to MOD is HUGE, and every time we slow things down or limit tech in the "Stock" classes we make the gap greater.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:39 AM   #39
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.... If every class that's designed to feed into the Mod class, becomes a slower, technology limited class, how is anyone supposed to develop the skills required to move up? The jump from the current "Stock" classes to MOD is HUGE, and every time we slow things down or limit tech in the "Stock" classes we make the gap greater.
I hear you on that. Back in the old brush days we used to have a 19T mod class that was very popular which eventually became 13.5 brushless. However fallout from the restructuring of onroad classes to bring back more racers resulted in the simplification of classes. Hence "spec"/"blinky" and "mod". Perhaps when the turnout for onroad increases, there may be enough people who would want to graduate from "spec" to form a new boosted class between "spec" and "mod" but until now we're lucky to have full heats of either.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:58 AM   #40
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Of course this rant comes from someone who only races 12th scale and WGT, which are the two classes that actually got SLOWER when we went brushless and lipo. If you guys were running 1s sedan, you'd beg for boost.........
Here is the problem.....for 12th scale because of the lesser voltage they now use yes Boost is just fine in that class. But in sedan on our little tracks boost is too much on a majority of our tracks. Yes some people can handle it but the majority of people can’t. If you want to get more people racing and keep racing then some sacrifice is going to have to be made. We can’t all have our boost and use it too. Racing is very complex to start with if you need to make it less complex so it will appeal to a larger group of racers....if not the shrinking pool will keep shrinking.

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Everyone is complaining that noone wants to move up to Mod, but why would they, when there's no class that offers the kind of training necessary to reach that level? If every class that's designed to feed into the Mod class, becomes a slower, technology limited class, how is anyone supposed to develop the skills required to move up? The jump from the current "Stock" classes to MOD is HUGE, and every time we slow things down or limit tech in the "Stock" classes we make the gap greater.

There are not many tracks that you can properly race mod on at today’s speeds…look at the lap times from 17.5 boosted at IIC to Mod at IIC…I think it was .2 off hot lap. That’s on a larger carpet track with some of the best drivers in the world. There are not large asphalt or carpet tracks on every corner around the US. So the ability it takes to run mod is very hard to learn on small tracks with the speed of the cars today hence this is the reason that stock or spec is so popular around the US. So really the tracks need to get larger or the speed needs to come down....which is going to happen first? This is why there needs to be two sets of rules for the track size. If the track is larger than 100ft you can and should run boost....if the track is smaller than that then no you should not run boost. This is the fundamental issue with the US Vs. the rest of the world. The rest of the world has some really nice large size tracks that are just fine running mod and or boost. When it comes to the US not many racers are lucky enough to have places like this. So their availability to get onto a track that can support mod is limited at best. So they race what they can comfortably race on their size local track and in most cases it stock or spec. So if you want to tell people that they have to move up to mod when they don’t have a track to race mod on then I fail to see the logic behind this. If their local track is large enough then by all means move on to mod but don’t force others to do the same.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:51 PM   #41
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Here is the problem.....for 12th scale because of the lesser voltage they now use yes Boost is just fine in that class. But in sedan on our little tracks boost is too much on a majority of our tracks. Yes some people can handle it but the majority of people can’t. If you want to get more people racing and keep racing then some sacrifice is going to have to be made. We can’t all have our boost and use it too. Racing is very complex to start with if you need to make it less complex so it will appeal to a larger group of racers....if not the shrinking pool will keep shrinking.

There are not many tracks that you can properly race mod on at today’s speeds…look at the lap times from 17.5 boosted at IIC to Mod at IIC…I think it was .2 off hot lap. That’s on a larger carpet track with some of the best drivers in the world. There are not large asphalt or carpet tracks on every corner around the US. So the ability it takes to run mod is very hard to learn on small tracks with the speed of the cars today hence this is the reason that stock or spec is so popular around the US. So really the tracks need to get larger or the speed needs to come down....which is going to happen first? This is why there needs to be two sets of rules for the track size. If the track is larger than 100ft you can and should run boost....if the track is smaller than that then no you should not run boost. This is the fundamental issue with the US Vs. the rest of the world. The rest of the world has some really nice large size tracks that are just fine running mod and or boost. When it comes to the US not many racers are lucky enough to have places like this. So their availability to get onto a track that can support mod is limited at best. So they race what they can comfortably race on their size local track and in most cases it stock or spec. So if you want to tell people that they have to move up to mod when they don’t have a track to race mod on then I fail to see the logic behind this. If their local track is large enough then by all means move on to mod but don’t force others to do the same.
1. Which is why, when this whole debate started, many of us asked ROAR to leave the pan car classes alone. In their infinite wisdom, they declined to do so. I just don't believe that when all is said and done blinky will keep more new people racing. It will become motor of the month, and battery as well. That is the always the way of untunable "spec" classes.

2. Exactly!!! I'm not the one that listed that moving up to mod as a reason why blinky was the new rule, Steve Pond stated that. Which is why rather than dumbing down the tech, a SLOWER motor would have been the more reasonable choice IMO. Drop 17.5 to 21.5, and there's your new "STOCK" sedan. You can still tailor your ESC to the track and your driving style, but now you're not ridiculously fast anymore. Hell, make it 25.5 like VTA. Another route would've been to go from LIPO to LIFE in the sedan classes and drop the voltage, which would also slow the cars. There were several roads that could've been taken that would have left a little tuning and still made the cars reasonable. A logical progression the way I see it would be to start in VTA, then go to USGT, Then "Stock sedan", Then SuperStock Sedan, then Mod. You know a logical progression that gradually increases the technical expertise required. Just seems to me there may be too many racers that should be running USGT or VTA, that are too proud to enter a class they can handle, so therefore all "Stock" classes should be drug down to their level.

It's this kinda crap that drove me out of TC to begin with.........
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:17 PM   #42
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Someone mentioned about the ON resistance as a way to gauge the performance of "blinky" speedos. I posted another thread on that topic here:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-anything.html
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #43
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Someone mentioned about the ON resistance as a way to gauge the performance of "blinky" speedos. I posted another thread on that topic here:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-anything.html
Thanks for getting this back on track. I think the boost vs blinky has been beaten to death in a few threads already. Perhaps we can revive the Boost is Dead thread for those who want to argue?
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:29 PM   #44
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I have 4 types of speedo that are blinky aproved , LRP SXX stock spec , SP GT2.0 , Tekin RS , and a Citrix .

I like the feel of the Citrix the most , our club runs 0 timing stock class with ONLY the citrix the most

cheapest speedo and nicest throttle profile , but the brakes are poop
I appreciate your post. Anyone else have other experiences with "blinky" speedos they can contribute?

Novak GTB2?
Novak Havoc?
Hobbywing Juststock?
Duratrax DE10?
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:52 PM   #45
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1. Which is why, when this whole debate started, many of us asked ROAR to leave the pan car classes alone. In their infinite wisdom, they declined to do so. I just don't believe that when all is said and done blinky will keep more new people racing. It will become motor of the month, and battery as well. That is the always the way of untunable "spec" classes.

2. Exactly!!! I'm not the one that listed that moving up to mod as a reason why blinky was the new rule, Steve Pond stated that. Which is why rather than dumbing down the tech, a SLOWER motor would have been the more reasonable choice IMO. Drop 17.5 to 21.5, and there's your new "STOCK" sedan. You can still tailor your ESC to the track and your driving style, but now you're not ridiculously fast anymore. Hell, make it 25.5 like VTA. Another route would've been to go from LIPO to LIFE in the sedan classes and drop the voltage, which would also slow the cars. There were several roads that could've been taken that would have left a little tuning and still made the cars reasonable. A logical progression the way I see it would be to start in VTA, then go to USGT, Then "Stock sedan", Then SuperStock Sedan, then Mod. You know a logical progression that gradually increases the technical expertise required. Just seems to me there may be too many racers that should be running USGT or VTA, that are too proud to enter a class they can handle, so therefore all "Stock" classes should be drug down to their level.

It's this kinda crap that drove me out of TC to begin with.........
Sorry for this deluge of off topic posts in this thread….

This will be my last post on this off topic stuff….

Ian…racing will always be motor of the month or battery of the month no matter what. So in regards to your comment about blinky making it motor & battery of the month I couldn’t disagree more. Racing will always be this way that’s just how racers are. If there is a faster motor people are going to want it. Your motor and your battery are just as important in boost as it is blinky so for you to say blinky is this way its very short sighted. The only way around it is to spec just 1 motor and or ESC….and if you want to know how well that will fly with people just ask the USVTA. There is always going to be new motors and new everything its up to you the racer to buy them. No-one is forcing anything on anyone when something new comes out. So really in the end if you can “dumb” it down like you say to get more people racing then so be it. Because really racing will still be racing and racers will still do what racers do this will never change but if more people can do it easier than it might be a step in the right direction to making things grow again.

As for there being some sort of progression I agree 100% with you. However…taking voltage away is never the answer to anything.
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