R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-05-2011, 12:37 AM   #226
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer View Post
I think it should start at 45. and keep raising it until the winner is 2 laps off the regular class winners pace.

Age is a lousy indicator of skill level.

Looks to me like the rules are posted. Don't like it, don't go. If the event turns out big, you were wrong and missed out on some great fun. If it turns out poorly attended, whoever put the classes together missed the mark.

I'd be for a class where I didn't have to work as hard, but still got the track time. Something like Leave your car in cardboard box in the track room, and pull it out and toss it on the track for your heat. Toss it back in the box. If you break, you're done, you sit in the bar the rest of the weekend and talk about how fast we all used to be.

I will say this. ALWAYS, when I help setup what I call "different" classes, it's based around fun. And they are always well participated in. If nobody's having fun, that's the killer. And I keep things slow. There's no need for a 7 lap gap in a main event. Figure out how to write the rules so it's 2 laps or less and you'll have 10 drivers having fun and battling, not 2. better racing, closer action. All of us here have great storys about that ONE particular race, the one epic battle where it makes the hair on your arms stand up just to think about it because the racing was so close that it was epic! Even though were racing for 5th and 6th in the C, makes no difference. Where you get off the drivers stand high fiving each other and laughing, shaking hands, and slapping each other on the back. Sometimes, it's somebody you don't even know. All anybody wants is the "perception" of a fair shot, and to have a good time.

It would seem that the majority of racers we race with perceive "blinky" to be more fair. I do too. BUT, I must confess that it might also be because I don't have the time to put in to find THEE settings that work for me. It's not a Lazy thing, we're all busy, I'm just short on time like the rest of us. rarely do I have the right settings. and MAN, do I hate that. I feel like I've missed out on some secret meeting.

Really, all we did is change the magic of tuning brushed motors to tuning speedos. But at least with a motor dyno, you could enjoy the hobby at home, tune your junk and have it ready. Can't tune a speedo in your basement and test it. For most people you have to waste qualifiers doing it.

Since the advent of the brushless motors that were supposed to be the greatest equalizers EVER, we have never had a larger disparity in speed. And more confused people standing around scratching their heads.

If I could get to the track and just learn the layout, rather than learn what I don't know about tuning a speedo, I'd be happier more of the time.

Hence, the popularity of Blinky. Throwing a race without blinky is a ballsy move.

I'm here to tell ya, you want to see a pile of guys having a PILE of fun? Silver can 1/12th, 15 minute qualifiers. Motors are like 35 watts and perfect. I spent a few months one winter perfecting it as a class. NOT for the A-main guys who will declare it "stupid and slow", but for everybody else that wants to actually RACE! There is no speed number associated with the word RACE.

You can make faster classes, or you can have closer races, you can't have both.

Cleveland is kind of it's own Institution, like the Whip was. You go to be a part of the spectacle. And to get out of having to sit with your drunken Aunt Nancy, that smells mysteriously of urine, at the Thanksgiving table.

Blinky is there, just in sedan 17.5 and VTA.

While there are points of this post I'm not 100% on, Bob gets it!!

I wasn't looking to form "different" classes. I was looking for some form of continuity from last season's rules. It's okay though, as I'm willing to take a shot to see where things progress from our current state.
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:57 AM   #227
Tech Master
 
chicky03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,993
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to chicky03
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie1 View Post
after going to the Halloween race and watching larry f. lap the field in 13.5 boost i realize the only races that were fun to watch were the Blinky classes. Heck for that matter 1/12th Mod was so fast that the field was so far apart in Mod that maybe its time to have blinky in Mod 1/12th.. Where is Bob Stormer when I need him! But to go to Blinky in all classes would require a bold move..we can't even get blinky in 17.5 or 13.5,,what am I thinking!
Hey I didn't get lapped!! But I do see your point. The slower the cars, the better actual racing you will have because more people can do it. Mod is so fast and the tracks are so tight you rarely see a good race. Hate to say it but the best racing I saw all weekend was in the rubber tire mains. Slow, limited traction is best if you want a race to watch.

I watched some videos from 20+ years ago on YouTube and no wonder r/c was so popular, the cars were so slow any setup or car would get around the track decent! Driving came more into play.
__________________
Serpent America, Picco, Desoto Racing, Motiv, J Concepts, Nitro Pro fuel, PT RC Racing Oils, TQ Wire(best wire ever!), BSR tires, Arrowmax, Xceed, Sanwa, Amain Hobbies, MIP, Getcustomized, EZ Customs
chicky03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #228
Tech Champion
 
rayhuang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Posts: 6,511
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to rayhuang
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post

I watched some videos from 20+ years ago on YouTube and no wonder r/c was so popular, the cars were so slow any setup or car would get around the track decent! Driving came more into play.
One of the best A mains I ever saw was Rice, Gerber and, and...crap cant remember his name, but can see his face at the Halloween classic. It was stock, not mod. It is like F1 where individual cars are so impressive to watch, but the speed and capabilities of the cars makes overtaking rare.

I just watched some of those vids recently and the cars stock guys are supposed to compete in are so fast. I hope the cars got stronger too or the walls softer (doubt it).
rayhuang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:01 AM   #229
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,542
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Cool

Interesting discussion.

What I have noticed is this.

For club racing, blinky and boosted both work.
We have plenty of time to find settings that maximize both over time.

At the recent iic I raced at, both blinky and boosted were difficult to sort out.
Mod was the easiest class to find the setup.
Mod had the most giggle factor o' fun, and also is where I had the closest races all week

Guess it depends on the surface and layout with mod, as it's nothing like that at our club where 17.5 blinky and 13.5 boosted have the best racing.

Having said that, the Cleveland Champs track back in the days of proper 12th scale only had layouts so tight, and yet the mod races were always so close even back then.
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #230
Tech Addict
 
chubbspeterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ridgemont
Posts: 518
Default

Entry sent in...


wait did I just see Ray post? Uh oh....
__________________
Mike Demone
7-Eleven, National Accounts Manager
Ridgemont, CA, 90026
"I vowed to never let this happen.."
chubbspeterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #231
Tech Addict
 
chubbspeterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ridgemont
Posts: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhuang View Post
One of the best A mains I ever saw was Rice, Gerber and, and...crap cant remember his name, but can see his face at the Halloween classic. It was stock, not mod. It is like F1 where individual cars are so impressive to watch, but the speed and capabilities of the cars makes overtaking rare.

I just watched some of those vids recently and the cars stock guys are supposed to compete in are so fast. I hope the cars got stronger too or the walls softer (doubt it).

Sweet Dager?
__________________
Mike Demone
7-Eleven, National Accounts Manager
Ridgemont, CA, 90026
"I vowed to never let this happen.."
chubbspeterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 10:46 AM   #232
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 645
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
I'm done. After getting the time off from work and getting new stuff built for Cleveland (including a new sedan) I'm done.

Pissed doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about the classes and race format. Not running the SAME STOCK RULES as the other big races is a complete JOKE. Add to that this lame idea of running one round of practice and I'm out.

Guess what? I for one need to have more practice laps to get the track down and hang on to a mod 12th car. We're not all factory drivers! So, one practice rules out mod. My next class would be stock. Guess what? You don't offer the same stock class that all of the other big races run.

I'm out on this one again. Not because of the time or the expense but because of the RACE!

Time to look at vacation time for Snowbirds. It's going to be warmer there anyway.

Pissed...

Fred,

While i do not agree with all the classes at the champs and think they are making a big mistake with it. I love this race. And if people like you stop coming then there will be no race in the future. Which saddens me more then the classes they are putting out there.. I wish you would change you mind and have some fun. It is not work Right ...

I personally have been coming to this race since the early 80's , I have seen the Really good and the really bad, But at the end of the day the Really bad was still better then having no race at all..

Maybe if we all support the race Good or bad this year , Then we can have drivers meeting and sort it all out for the future.

My Opinion..

Mike
__________________
TEAM ASSOCIATED, SMC BATTERIES, REEDY MOTORS, JACO TIRES, RADIOPOST RADIOS, LRP ELECTRONICS, PROTOFORM BODIES, MAKITA POWER TOOLS, KICKER PEFORMANCE AUDIO, KOLORS BY KROPY, MUCH-, RSD
Mike Blackstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 10:49 AM   #233
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 645
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie1 View Post
after going to the Halloween race and watching larry f. lap the field in 13.5 boost i realize the only races that were fun to watch were the Blinky classes. Heck for that matter 1/12th Mod was so fast that the field was so far apart in Mod that maybe its time to have blinky in Mod 1/12th.. Where is Bob Stormer when I need him! But to go to Blinky in all classes would require a bold move..we can't even get blinky in 17.5 or 13.5,,what am I thinking!

Well you are off a bit here. I ruined the start of this race or it would have been a awesome race in my opinion. Larry was superfast but so were a few others that i managed to ruin there days and mine..

I expect the champs to be very close and no one running away with it like this race..

Also the mod 12th scale race was very close between me and chicky. I think under .5 for the win...


Mike
__________________
TEAM ASSOCIATED, SMC BATTERIES, REEDY MOTORS, JACO TIRES, RADIOPOST RADIOS, LRP ELECTRONICS, PROTOFORM BODIES, MAKITA POWER TOOLS, KICKER PEFORMANCE AUDIO, KOLORS BY KROPY, MUCH-, RSD
Mike Blackstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 02:07 PM   #234
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I went to cleavland a long time ago. RBF actually painted his FF in red, white and blue colors for me and my associates. I think I made the G main in mod...lol But it was an amazing race nonetheless

@cookie1

A mod 12th blinky really

That would defeat the whole platform of "mod" = Modified

And when you ramp or sever boost stock is it really stock still? Stock = not modified

Fine line that might divide racers not unite them I dunno

RBF is right that at local races you have more time to get it right unlike a national

If I was to be a stock racer I would IMHO want only blinky

If I need to race with a faster crowd then I move to mod

This is such an silly disscusion as serious and important as it is
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...

Last edited by Infinite 12th; 11-05-2011 at 02:32 PM.
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 03:42 PM   #235
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Bern, N.C.
Posts: 1,267
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default classes....

I've been attending the Cleveland indoor champs for over 25 years and have loved each and every trip to Ohio. IMO, it doesn't matter so much what classes are offered (boost vs blinky, brushed vs brushless). Both are fun. Typically it's the same guys who will be at the top anyway, regardless of which class, motor, or speedo type they are running. The reason......some guys have awesome skills that the rest of us just don't have. My comment about classes is that there are just too many of them these days. Running so many different classes tends to water down the numbers and therefore the competition in each. I fondly remember the glory days of Cleveland when there were only two classes........stock 1/12th and mod 1/12th. The entry list for both was huge and it was an awesome accomplishment just to make it into the feature race. In the early years, the stock heats went all the way down to the M, N, O, & P main. We now have sedans and WGT's in addition to our beloved 1/12th scale cars, so that will add a few more classes. But I see no reason why we need to be running so many different class choices in each scale. 1 slower class and 1 faster class for 1/12th and sedan should be sufficient, plus one or two special interest classes like WGT or F1. Whenever the entry list gets watered down to the point that there are only 2 or 3 heats in any given class, the competition becomes far less interesting. It's much more important to have big fields and lots of close competition from top to bottom. Whenever there are lots of guys running the same class, by the end of the weekend, whatever 10 guys show up for their main........they will all be closely matched and their individual races will be super intense. To me, that's the whole point of attending a major race.....to find yourself in a main with 9 other guys at your same skill level. And of course to try and place yourself as high up the heatboard as you can manage. Having said all that, LET'S PLAY!!!!! I love the indoor champs like no other race. That much has not changed one bit in over 25 years.
vafactor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 03:54 PM   #236
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
I've been attending the Cleveland indoor champs for over 25 years and have loved each and every trip to Ohio. IMO, it doesn't matter so much what classes are offered (boost vs blinky, brushed vs brushless). Both are fun. Typically it's the same guys who will be at the top anyway, regardless of which class, motor, or speedo type they are running. The reason......some guys have awesome skills that the rest of us just don't have. My comment about classes is that there are just too many of them these days. Running so many different classes tends to water down the numbers and therefore the competition in each. I fondly remember the glory days of Cleveland when there were only two classes........stock 1/12th and mod 1/12th. The entry list for both was huge and it was an awesome accomplishment just to make it into the feature race. In the early years, the stock heats went all the way down to the M, N, O, & P main. We now have sedans and WGT's in addition to our beloved 1/12th scale cars, so that will add a few more classes. But I see no reason why we need to be running so many different class choices in each scale. 1 slower class and 1 faster class for 1/12th and sedan should be sufficient, plus one or two special interest classes like WGT or F1. Whenever the entry list gets watered down to the point that there are only 2 or 3 heats in any given class, the competition becomes far less interesting. It's much more important to have big fields and lots of close competition from top to bottom. Whenever there are lots of guys running the same class, by the end of the weekend, whatever 10 guys show up for their main........they will all be closely matched and their individual races will be super intense. To me, that's the whole point of attending a major race.....to find yourself in a main with 9 other guys at your same skill level. And of course to try and place yourself as high up the heatboard as you can manage. Having said all that, LET'S PLAY!!!!! I love the indoor champs like no other race. That much has not changed one bit in over 25 years.
Great post
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:34 PM   #237
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 645
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
I've been attending the Cleveland indoor champs for over 25 years and have loved each and every trip to Ohio. IMO, it doesn't matter so much what classes are offered (boost vs blinky, brushed vs brushless). Both are fun. Typically it's the same guys who will be at the top anyway, regardless of which class, motor, or speedo type they are running. The reason......some guys have awesome skills that the rest of us just don't have. My comment about classes is that there are just too many of them these days. Running so many different classes tends to water down the numbers and therefore the competition in each. I fondly remember the glory days of Cleveland when there were only two classes........stock 1/12th and mod 1/12th. The entry list for both was huge and it was an awesome accomplishment just to make it into the feature race. In the early years, the stock heats went all the way down to the M, N, O, & P main. We now have sedans and WGT's in addition to our beloved 1/12th scale cars, so that will add a few more classes. But I see no reason why we need to be running so many different class choices in each scale. 1 slower class and 1 faster class for 1/12th and sedan should be sufficient, plus one or two special interest classes like WGT or F1. Whenever the entry list gets watered down to the point that there are only 2 or 3 heats in any given class, the competition becomes far less interesting. It's much more important to have big fields and lots of close competition from top to bottom. Whenever there are lots of guys running the same class, by the end of the weekend, whatever 10 guys show up for their main........they will all be closely matched and their individual races will be super intense. To me, that's the whole point of attending a major race.....to find yourself in a main with 9 other guys at your same skill level. And of course to try and place yourself as high up the heatboard as you can manage. Having said all that, LET'S PLAY!!!!! I love the indoor champs like no other race. That much has not changed one bit in over 25 years.
I love this post. My first race at the champs i was in the last main
( M OR N MAIN) of modified. The big guns were all marshalling my race. That was awesome.

I wish it was this easy. But with the mentality of everyone has to succeed ruined that and more classes were added so we could all make a Amain. Once this started people got used to it and the rest is history. Now they wont show up and race unless they have there class to succeed. I would rather make the B main in mod then win the stock A main back in the day. But that was just me..


Mike
__________________
TEAM ASSOCIATED, SMC BATTERIES, REEDY MOTORS, JACO TIRES, RADIOPOST RADIOS, LRP ELECTRONICS, PROTOFORM BODIES, MAKITA POWER TOOLS, KICKER PEFORMANCE AUDIO, KOLORS BY KROPY, MUCH-, RSD
Mike Blackstock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:53 PM   #238
Tech Master
 
HarryLeach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton, VA, USA
Posts: 1,596
Send a message via AIM to HarryLeach
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blackstock View Post
I love this post. My first race at the champs i was in the last main
( M OR N MAIN) of modified. The big guns were all marshalling my race. That was awesome.

I wish it was this easy. But with the mentality of everyone has to succeed ruined that and more classes were added so we could all make a Amain. Once this started people got used to it and the rest is history. Now they wont show up and race unless they have there class to succeed. I would rather make the B main in mod then win the stock A main back in the day. But that was just me..


Mike
I posted in another thread, and I won't repost the entire schpeel, that racing is hard. That's what makes it so attractive to me and a lot of others, and I think that's what's being lost among the many differing opinions on the current class structures. I don't want to run a class where my hands are tied behind my back in an effort to make racing easier.

I started out this season with my first ever new TC chassis [previously all used and dated], and found myself 2-3 laps off the pace in boosted 17.5, which put me within 1 lap of the Blinky pace. Instead of dropping down to run blinky, I worked on chassis setup, fine tuned my profile, and by the end of our asphalt season, half or more of the Boosted A main was finishing on the same lap, myself included.

I can take the radio of a friend's blinky car and turn laps equal to or faster than they can, and absolutely hate the dead throttle feel. Chassis setup and driving skill is critical regardless of the power package used.

What is so horrible about running a class that is challenging to you, instead of sticking with what you feel comfortable with all the time?

I think the class structure for this year's Champs looks like loads of fun, and really wish I could make it.
__________________
Privateer racing lots of stuff.
Remember kids, racing isn't fair!
HarryLeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:53 PM   #239
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,049
Default

I have you beat Mike. My first race there I ended up second in the "0" main.
And yes, I still have the trophy to this day! It's actually one of my favorites.
John Warner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 06:28 PM   #240
Tech Fanatic
 
Infinite 12th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 877
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blackstock View Post
I love this post. My first race at the champs i was in the last main
( M OR N MAIN) of modified. The big guns were all marshalling my race. That was awesome.

I wish it was this easy. But with the mentality of everyone has to succeed ruined that and more classes were added so we could all make a Amain. Once this started people got used to it and the rest is history. Now they wont show up and race unless they have there class to succeed. I would rather make the B main in mod then win the stock A main back in the day. But that was just me..

Mike
I would rather be in the class (mod) that I believe I'm good enough for than win for bragging rights or something having won stock

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryLeach View Post
What is so horrible about running a class that is challenging to you, instead of sticking with what you feel comfortable with all the time?
"Your either first or your last" *Taladaga Nights*

Maybe people have watched this movie too many times or maybe people are poor losers I dunno but wasn't part of racing to hang out with all the other racers doing something interesting or fun. Something to look forward to other than winning
__________________
12th scale - The Jedi class...
Infinite 12th is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:03 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net