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Old 10-31-2004, 09:22 AM   #46
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Wow .....

Reading this with great interest. Until the issues are cleared up in a positive way, I will never crack open RC Driver in my local bookstore. Sounds like a big scam to me, that didn't even pan out.

I always liked my subcription to XRC better anyways.

Hope it all works out for everyone.

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Old 10-31-2004, 09:48 AM   #47
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Originally posted by tazz888
Futureal,

I agree. it is silly to have such a thing as exclusive coverage of an event at that level. Your correct in saying that it is IFMAR and FTR's doing. Being from CT I have many friends at RC Driver, RCCA, and also worked with Derick for several years at a LHS ( hey buddy it's Ron ). I do think that the guys at RC Driver should have re-thought their decision about this. We want the sport to grow and the only way to do so is to have as much positive media exposure as possible. Localy they have been making a presence at all of the tracks on a weekly basis. This is a good thing since they are very helpful to the racers who ask them questions and even bring free mags and shirts to give to everyone. They make a better impression at the track than RCCA but this whole Worlds issue is really a step in the wrong direction for the sport. I understand that they are a "new" mag who are trying to make an impression so I won't blame them for their actions. IFMAR was wrong for offering such a deal and they should be held 100% responsible. Some people still haven't realized that these are "toy" cars that we are racing and there is not millions of dollars at stake at these races like at a NASCAR or other professional sporting event. Hey IFMAR this is not NASCAR so stop acting like it is. Just my .02 cents.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:58 AM   #48
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OK-- Regardless of blame on this lack of information for the race, take one giant step back and look at our sport as a whole right now! Ready? I think we can all agree that to take our sport to the next level to gain exposure we NEED tv coverage. Can you for an instant, imagine, this past week being our biggest race that only comes every 2 years having been televised? Just think of it this way. Its the whole week before the Indianapois 500. Sports reports from around the world have next to no idea who is really fastest in practice. Spectators show up the day of the race and have NO idea of who is on the starting grid or in what order. Then, after the new WORLD CHAMPION is victorious, the anouncers at the event or even sports reporters around the globe cannot report the news to the WORLD because the rights to that info are exclusive to a magazine!!!!????? W T F !! This ladies and gentleman will forever keep us looked upon as " guys who play with toy cars" and not let people understand the skill these world champions posses. Untill we change our way of organization and promotion we will not break out of this cycle. One final thought--my father always told me problems are like plumbing.......Crap rolls from the top to the bottom. If we are not happy with where we are going, then its time to look at our leaders!!! PERIOD!!

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Old 10-31-2004, 10:08 AM   #49
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Just a few minor comments...

First of all, there was daily information posted on the internet. It's all in the on-road conference at Starting Grid, Item #150. The web addy was posted, so anyone could find it (http://www.rc-racing.com/cgi-bin/bac...eek:sgrid8,150). Unfortunately, much of what was posted there did not get posted until after 10 in the evening, but there is a reason for that...

In many cases, there was no "computer file" that could be distributed to the press or anyone else, until long after the run was completed. There were only two computers in use (plus Jarrod's laptop) and the club was working overtime just to keep the program moving along. Several of the "final results" were a printed copy of the race results, with corrections done manually, and finally signed off on by IFMAR officials... and the sign-offs were done only AFTER the penalties (if any) had been applied, scoring errors (missed laps, etc.) were applied, and the time expired for official protests.

When it comes to the Finals, as of the end of the event, there again was NO computer readable version of the results - again, it was a piece of paper, with signatures at the bottom from all the IFMAR officials. At some point in the future, someone (probably Jarrod) will need to go in and update the data so it is valid, and then distribute it on the 'net. Jarrod wisely chose to go to sleep last night, instead of staying up until 5am like I did... I did get things posted (see above) but it meant re-typing in all the stuff based on the printouts. As far as I know, anyone could have gone up to the board where the results were posted, and taken a photo of each one, then do what I did - type the stuff in manually.



As to the topic of this discussion item, if the situation really is as described, I agree with what was said above completely. There is no need for anyone to have "exclusive access" to the results. I don't think that is fair to anyone. Photos are a different story - it would be completely wrong for one person to use a different person's photos... but the results are from the race organizer, and should be distributed as always, to any member of the press who has been granted access to cover the event.

I think that we're mis-interpreting what RC Driver meant. I hope we are. I do know that they wanted full coverage, and were planning on providing it, but despite the wording on their website, I don't think they deliberately intended to prevent any other magazine or web outlet from being able to post results promptly.



There may be a lot more going on, that I'm not aware of. If the other points posted above are correct, I agree that they're not right.... but I never heard anyone say that computer results would only go to one magazine. All I heard, was that the computer results needed all kinds of corrections before they could be distributed. Jarrod was the person at the event who would/will be doing this, and while he was covering the event for RC Driver, that just means (to me) that he was wearing more than one hat.

Until I find out otherwise, I'm assuming that this is the case. If not, and there really was an attempt to provide digital results only to one magazine, then I completely agree with the comments above about how wrong this is..... ....but as of right now, nobody has the corrected digital results on-line, so nobody has any "advantage" or "head start". I'm assuming that when Jarrod wakes up, he'll get the computer results updated and post them for everyone to see.


.........sorry for being so long winded... time to get off this soapbox and get back to editing photos. Much more fun!!!
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:09 AM   #50
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I just got off the phone with Greg about this situation because admittedly I didn't know much about the deal other than it was in place, but here's what's going on.

From what I was told, there was an issue with Autoscore creating proper results in a digital format (which Mike confirms in his previous post). That made it impossible to just download the results on a disk or memory stick and then easily upload them. This is why there are no official results on Driver's website, RC Tech, Team Orion, or elsewhere. Jarrod Pilone busted his hump all weekend doing IT stuff for the track, taking photos (which he posted links to on RC Tech), and taking notes and more for the coverage that will be coming soon. Jarrod is spending all day today converting the printed results into an Excell file (spending all day working instead of taking his kids out for Halloween) and will be available to EVERYONE as soon as he has the files converted over. In fact Stephen Bess from XRC will be one of the, if not the, first to get this information. There wasn't an effort br Driver to suppress information or to keep things from getting posted on sites here or elsewhere. I think you can tell from how his posts went from pretty frequent to almost non-exsistent that Jarrod had his hands full with what what happening with Autoscore. Greg will be on here in the near future to expand on this, as like I mentioned I was not involved in the negotiations or the planning and wasn't there. IF you have questions, please e-mail [email protected] and use the subject "IFMAR Worlds".
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:16 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
C'mon guys...give RC Driver a break...after all..they DO have 2 NASCAR articles and a drag racing article on the front page of their site!!

I'm sure that RCDriver entered into this hoping for both growth AND profit by having the best coverage of the event(by securing exclusive access). I'm sure that the backlash from enthusiasts was not something they had anticipated or they would have re-thought the arrangement.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:28 AM   #52
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Quote:
they DO have 2 NASCAR articles on the front page of their site!!
Actually the NASCAR article is about an R/C race I organized and put on during the BGN and CTS series races at the Milwaukee Mile. The bulk of the article has little to do with NASCAR.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:30 AM   #53
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Sorry gary..it was a cheapshot, but I couldn't resist.....I went there looking for 'Exclusive World's Coverage' and saw a lot of 1:1 cars and drivers on the page instead without anything from the Worlds...
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:33 AM   #54
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Before I leave here and go back to photoshopping, let me just add that I didn't mean to imply Autoscore was the reason for the delay. Autoscore did have some problems, but it was only in combining the double (or triple) Mains.

The real reason for the delay, was that after each run was completed, and the computer printout generated, IFMAR would manually correct things to add penalties, fix missed laps, etc. There is a certain period after each run during which protests can be made. Until that period expires, the results are still not yet final. By the time the results were final, another race was being run, and the track crew was occupied in the new race, not in stopping the whole program so they could go back and correct the computer version of the previous race.


That is what needs to be done now, based on all the printouts from the race, combined with the written notes from IFMAR.



End of comment.... back to Photoshop for me.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:33 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikemyers
Just a few minor comments...

First of all, there was daily information posted on the internet. It's all in the on-road conference at Starting Grid, Item #150. The web addy was posted, so anyone could find it (http://www.rc-racing.com/cgi-bin/bac...eek:sgrid8,150). Unfortunately, much of what was posted there did not get posted until after 10 in the evening, but there is a reason for that...

In many cases, there was no "computer file" that could be distributed to the press or anyone else, until long after the run was completed. There were only two computers in use (plus Jarrod's laptop) and the club was working overtime just to keep the program moving along. Several of the "final results" were a printed copy of the race results, with corrections done manually, and finally signed off on by IFMAR officials... and the sign-offs were done only AFTER the penalties (if any) had been applied, scoring errors (missed laps, etc.) were applied, and the time expired for official protests.

When it comes to the Finals, as of the end of the event, there again was NO computer readable version of the results - again, it was a piece of paper, with signatures at the bottom from all the IFMAR officials. At some point in the future, someone (probably Jarrod) will need to go in and update the data so it is valid, and then distribute it on the 'net. Jarrod wisely chose to go to sleep last night, instead of staying up until 5am like I did... I did get things posted (see above) but it meant re-typing in all the stuff based on the printouts. As far as I know, anyone could have gone up to the board where the results were posted, and taken a photo of each one, then do what I did - type the stuff in manually.



As to the topic of this discussion item, if the situation really is as described, I agree with what was said above completely. There is no need for anyone to have "exclusive access" to the results. I don't think that is fair to anyone. Photos are a different story - it would be completely wrong for one person to use a different person's photos... but the results are from the race organizer, and should be distributed as always, to any member of the press who has been granted access to cover the event.

I think that we're mis-interpreting what RC Driver meant. I hope we are. I do know that they wanted full coverage, and were planning on providing it, but despite the wording on their website, I don't think they deliberately intended to prevent any other magazine or web outlet from being able to post results promptly.



There may be a lot more going on, that I'm not aware of. If the other points posted above are correct, I agree that they're not right.... but I never heard anyone say that computer results would only go to one magazine. All I heard, was that the computer results needed all kinds of corrections before they could be distributed. Jarrod was the person at the event who would/will be doing this, and while he was covering the event for RC Driver, that just means (to me) that he was wearing more than one hat.

Until I find out otherwise, I'm assuming that this is the case. If not, and there really was an attempt to provide digital results only to one magazine, then I completely agree with the comments above about how wrong this is..... ....but as of right now, nobody has the corrected digital results on-line, so nobody has any "advantage" or "head start". I'm assuming that when Jarrod wakes up, he'll get the computer results updated and post them for everyone to see.


.........sorry for being so long winded... time to get off this soapbox and get back to editing photos. Much more fun!!!
So nobody has the final results? That's the worst thing I can possibly imagine. WE spent lots of money to cover this event and give it FULL coverage in our magazine and yet we can't have the digital results, which would take 2 seconds to distribute? Poor. That's all I can come up with at this point.

TO anybody IFMAR, ROAR, the local track. When you put on a race in this small of a segment you have to try and get ALL the coverage and make it a good expereince for the media....or guess what? Your race is no more.

Go to a real event and see how people are treated, if we were even close to that I'd be happy. I heard that the IFMAR and trck crew had a nice place to sit in AC while the other media outlets got nothing? Does this make any sense?

Sure there are a lot of "media" so why not make some sort of PRESS pass where you have to apply so everybody with a camera or website isn't considered press. I can't walk into a NASCAR race with a camera and do what I want. And I don't expect that here.

While I may be missing some of the facts about this and I'll have my update from Bess after I call him, but if this is the case I'm going to have to contact at least ROAR here and IFMAR to explain what the continual problem is at these races.
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:37 AM   #56
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Just out of curiosity, why were post race penalties given instead of a stop and go like was used in the Reedy Race? There are normally one or two IFMAR referees along with the race director to call any infractions instantly, correct?
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Old 10-31-2004, 10:53 AM   #57
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I got a few PMs that indicated I should reiterate something: what we (my team and I) specifically requested and needed were the actual results of the races WITH lap times, not the final standings. We weren't looking for edited copies or anything else, no penalities and so on. To actually show changes on the track as they happened, we needed that file. If we had been asked to not post that file online, we would have respected those wishes.

As I posted earlier, I understand that if things are not correct, they need to be corrected first. But that begs the larger question: why are they not correct? This is the Worlds, not a club race!
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:01 AM   #58
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I should also state, again, that the purpose of this thread was not to rip on RC Driver or anybody else (aside from perhaps IFMAR) but rather to point out *how* and *why* an exclusivity deal is a poor thing for this hobby, and to hope that race organizers in the future consider a few things:

1) Treating the media like VIPs
2) Not forging exclusive deals in event coverage
3) Supplying timely and accurate results

If you have taken my post as otherwise, I encourage you to read it again or from a different perspective.
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:07 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by futureal
If you have taken my post as otherwise, I encourage you to read it again or from a different perspective.
That's pretty funny Shane. Can I use the line "I encourage you to form a different perspective." LOL
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Old 10-31-2004, 11:30 AM   #60
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you can have autoscore create a html every time it creates a printout, then all that is needed is copy the html to a disk or a usb drive and hand it out, this would take about 20 sec for each round, you can hand out corrections later as the printout put up would be exactly the same, and like nascar results you post that the results are pre inspection.
penelty etc..

Sounds to me like all partys were not talking correctly, the track was saying IFMAR and RC DRIVER were the ones saying no info out, when that was not the intention of RC DRIVER.

also it sounds like the software issue had missed laps, that most likly is a issue with amb/loop/transponder issue.

And that snowball effect can create huge problems for officiating and scoring a race correctly.

Which also created a lack of info out of scoring because they were working very hard to get all the scoring correct and that somehow became RC DRIVER is not allowing the info out.
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