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Old 06-24-2011, 10:17 AM   #1
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Default R.C. tires...

Hey guys I am new to this site so let me explain why I am here. I race go-karts. We treat our tires with chemicals preps that I sell that help with tire bite and stick you to the track. I was wondering if this is something that R.C. racers do or would be interested in? I dont know what type of tires you guys run or the track condition, so if you guys are interested let me know and we can see if I have a product that will help stick you to the track.

If I have posted this in the wrong section let me know or guide me in the right direction. Thank you.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:33 AM   #2
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Yup, there are traction compounds. A few off of the top of my head:
Buggy Grip (my favorite for outdoor onroad racing)
Jack the Gripper
Niftec
Paragon
Sticky Fingers
it would be interesting to see how go-kart stuff would work, though.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by csteel14golf View Post
Hey guys I am new to this site so let me explain why I am here. I race go-karts. We treat our tires with chemicals preps that I sell that help with tire bite and stick you to the track. I was wondering if this is something that R.C. racers do or would be interested in? I dont know what type of tires you guys run or the track condition, so if you guys are interested let me know and we can see if I have a product that will help stick you to the track.

If I have posted this in the wrong section let me know or guide me in the right direction. Thank you.
We're always very interested in tire compounds. I would gladly invest 60 - 75 dollars to get something like you mix and match package in 4oz sizes to try them all.

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Old 10-12-2011, 05:15 PM   #4
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[[email protected]_Mighty;9301694]We're always very interested in tire compounds. I would gladly invest 60 - 75 dollars to get something like you mix and match package in 4oz sizes to try them all.


Art, im sorry I havent been here in a while. I will work on getting smaller bottles for you guys. Thank you and sorry it took so long to answer.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:51 PM   #5
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[QUOTE=csteel14golf;9774267]
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We're always very interested in tire compounds. I would gladly invest 60 - 75 dollars to get something like you mix and match package in 4oz sizes to try them all.


Art, im sorry I havent been here in a while. I will work on getting smaller bottles for you guys. Thank you and sorry it took so long to answer.
Please PM me when you're ready, I'm intrested
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:02 PM   #6
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I also race karts and occasionally stock cars, and I've tried some of those preps on RC TC rubber tires.

The "qualifying" or "undetectable" preps are usually great for cleaning the tires, without making them greasy feeling. I've found these to be great on asphalt as you're not chasing a squirrely car on warm-up laps, and the seem to allow the tires to come up to operating temp quickly, and finish a run at a lower tire temp, without falling off in grip.

More aggressive kart preps [like the ones typically used by guys racing dirt oval] will dramatically soften a tire. Sometimes to the point where a hard spec tire will only last one race day if the prep time is too long between rounds. The first few mils of tire tread will shed off the tire in the first few corners on asphalt, which helps reveal fresh rubber for good grip. Without setup changes, this added grip can, at best, hurt corner speed, at worst, lead to traction rolling.

Some of the most aggressive kart preps, known by colorful names like "Goat Pee" and other similar mixtures, are really unsuitable for RC use. A lot of them have a combination of xylene and acetone in the mixture, which gives almost supernatural grip to the rubber, but will also cause your tire beads to come unglued, or melt the wheel.

I haven't used any tire preps that are applied inside the tire on RC tires.

I've used Hot Lap LMT all summer on asphalt Rubber TC, on a sugar prepped track, and really like it. Doesn't unglue the tires, really seems to even out the grip throughout a run without dramatic swings, it's not so aggressive that I have to be super critical on my prep regime in conjunction with setup changes, it doesn't seem to affect tire wear, but it does lower tire temps at the end of a run compared with unprepped tires.

It's not quite aggressive enough for carpet, and since we're still a Paragon track, we still rock the black can.

It does decent on foam tires for 1/12, though I would be hesitant to try a more aggressive kart or car prep on foams.

Here's some other common tire preps used in kart and car oval racing: http://www.hdmworld.com/tirepreps.htm

Wintergreen is a lot like Paragon.

Goat P is aggressive stuff, it will dramatically shorten the tire life of most TC rubber tires, but it will soften them up.

Acrysol isn't used by itself very often, but it would probably work decent on RC tires to salvage a set of tires that have been glazed for one more decent run.

Speedy 500 is "kinda" like Jack or Sticky Fingers in that it will make the tire noticeably tacky, and won't stay on the tire an entire run, usually just long enough for the tire to come up to proper temperature.

Tire Tac is a great quick prep when you need to split tire durometers between what you have installed, and what the next softest tire you have available is. It's also decent for salvaging tires for that "one final run" that may have been glazed.

Of all of these, if I were to try something other than Paragon on carpet, Tire Tac would get my nod, but only after checking that it didn't unglue my tires, or melt wheels.


Bottom line is, if you want to try something new that's not marketed specifically to RC, don't experiment on your favorite tires, keep your old sets to test for safety first.

And the main question on these FTS preps, do ANY of the preps offered use Acetone, Xylene, or any other chemical than can damage CA bonds or plastics?
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:48 AM   #7
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My ex teammate (he died afew years ago) took with him his secret stuff for rubber tires.It was a two part mixture of some clear (2/3) and red stuff(1/3). He also raced real cars on asphalt. We could use old tires for up to ten more races using his stuff and the tires chirped in the corners like new tires. We could not let sun light hit the tires till race time. It was supposed to bring the tires up to temp,very quickly.It worked both on carpet and asphalt.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:28 PM   #8
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Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:47 PM   #9
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Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.
Huh?
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:52 AM   #10
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My local car shop has Track Bite on sale. It's mainly used for full scale drag racing. The container said it can be poured on asphalt or brushed onto tires. Do you think these will work on rc tires?
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:59 AM   #11
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I will give a response to HarryLeach soon. Unfortunatly some of the information he has given is not accurate.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:58 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by csteel14golf View Post
I will give a response to HarryLeach soon. Unfortunatly some of the information he has given is not accurate.
Look forward to that. What experience I've given was I imagining?
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:06 AM   #13
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My local car shop has Track Bite on sale. It's mainly used for full scale drag racing. The container said it can be poured on asphalt or brushed onto tires. Do you think these will work on rc tires?
I've tried this before and it's a waste of time. Outdoors the tires pick up so much dust/debris after 2-3 laps that the car is undrivable. VHT is talking about drag racers who go in a straight line for 3-7 seconds and then recoat their tires for the next run.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:43 AM   #14
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HarryLeach, thank you for the detailed explanation. There are some things that I will offer for your information. First we have a line of preps that do different things with different tires. To make this easy I will give a breakdown by prep.

TT Inside. This prep is designed to build heat and maintain heat in the tire during the race. The prep also adds up to 25% bite in a tire for a situation where you need a lot of grip. This prep can drop the duro of a tire 3-5 points.

HT Inside. This prep is designed to stabilize a tire and dissipate heat. The primary function of the HT Inside is to maintain the tire during the race so the tire doesnít fade off when the outside prep wears out. This prep may or may not drop the duro of a tire 0-2 points.

HT Series 1. We use this prep as a conditioner during the week on tires. This prep extends the life of the tire by keeping the tire conditioned so it doesnít do things like dry or crack. This conditioner also helps build bite in the outside of the tire and is used in conjunction with an inside prep or as an alternate method of not having to prep the inside of the tire. This prep does not drop the duro on a tire.

HT Series 2. Is used when a tire needs a little more bite than just a conditioned tire. This prep will drop the duro on a tire 2-4 points but allow the tire to fire off and maintain grip. This prep is great on a slick surface.

Slight Bite. This prep is designed to fire a tire off and build bite in the tire. It can drop the duro on the tire 1-5 points depending on cure time.

Black Bite. This prep is designed to put a lot of bite to a tire and stick you to the track. This prep will also drop the duro of a tire to build bite but will put enough bite in the tire to stick you on any slick surface.

All of these preps can be washed out of the tire and the tire will come back up on the duro with cure time, usually within a week. None of these preps damage a tire or burn a tire off in one race. I will say that most of the stuff that you mentioned in your post will in fact peel the rubber off of a tire given the tire is building heat and sliding. I have had guys that run late model racecars show me the effects of the prep you really like and it peeled the outside rubber tread off of their tires. The feedback that we receive from our customers concerning their tires is that they are able to run more races without replacing tires and the tires do not lose speed as they do with other preps. I know that the prep you mentioned has a tendency to glaze a tire over and form a hard surface on the tires. Once the tire glazes the tire starts to lose grip and will not hold to the racing surface.

Many racers have gotten away from that particular line as it was ruining their tires to the point of no repair. The only way they could get the tire back was to take a grinder to the tire and try to grind down to fresh rubber. This was also eating a lot of rubber off the tires and they have to buy more tires to stay competitive.

We do not use or sell goat pee as I do not prefer the effects it makes on the tires. We do not mix acrysol in our preps but do sell it as a separate product. The acrysol is used in situations of new tires when you need the pores open for the prep to get in fast. A situation might be when you buy a new set of tires at the track and donít have time to condition the tires. In this case you can mix in the acrysol and it allows the prep to get in the tire in the quick amount of time that you need.

As mentioned some of our products do have xylene and some donít. These preps are used for making the tire act different. We have run the products with the xylene in many tire brands and it is not eating the rubber or causing damage to the tire. However some of our preps are xylene free if thatís what you prefer. The EL Elite, Black Bite, TT Series 1, and HT Series 1 have no xylene. If youíre worried about the effects of xylene then you can use these 4 preps and know they donít carry xylene.

If anyone wants to send us your old tires we can do the testing here and give you the results. I would be glad to work with anyone willing to test and help get the right product to you. Our preps are extremely successful in Race cars and Karting alike.

HarryLeach, thank you for your post and if you or anyone out there has any questions feel free to call. We would love to be able to provide R.C. car racers a product that will help their competitiveness. We are working to get the prep in smaller bottles, and figuring the price change, to offer a great product at an affordable cost to the racer.

Thank you for your time and feel free to ask any questions.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:39 AM   #15
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Thanks for the explanation on the preps you offer.

Goat Pee is some very aggressive stuff, and I know for fact it will debond a TC tire's glue bead. It will also glaze and turn a tire blue when severely overheated, as you mentioned.

For RC use, the LMT isn't bad. I know on heavier vehicles that generate a lot of heat in the tires, LMT will gradually harden the tire, but so far through 3 sets of tires treated with only LMT, they've lasted more runs, with less drop off in lap times through their life than other RC specific preps I've used.

One thing I'd like to mention for your consideration, however.

A late model's tire tread depth is between, at a quick guess, 5 and 10mm, minimum, depending on the brand, preparation and how many laps they've been run. A kart tire is in the same tread depth range.

A brand new TC rubber tire from nearly any manufacturer will have between 3 and 4mm of tire tread. With some of your preps advertised as dropping the durometer 3-5 points, you're effectively changing tire compounds. Since most RC guys try a new prep as a single tuning test, a car set up to run a harder tire that has been treated to drop 5 points on the durometer will be on a much softer tire, and it is entirely possible to burn off a set in one or 2 runs if the setup isn't changed accordingly.

I'd also like to thank you for identifying the preps containing xylene. On most nylon wheels, this won't present a problem, but on ABS or plastic blend wheels, distortion or melting could occur.

Do you use acetone in any of your tire preps? Acetone will break down CA glue bonds, and even if the tire hooks up great, it doesn't do much good if it rolls off the tire halfway through a run. Just the vapor from acetone will debond a glue bead, so it's not a matter of being careful not to get the prep in the bead area, it's a matter of avoiding it all together. Some of the wheels we use will melt in acetone as well.


I'm not trying to knock your products, I talked with some of my kart buddies last night that use FTS preps and really like them, but using them in RC requires a little more attention to what the formula contains.

So even with my Spanish Inquisition warming up, thank you for trying to bring your products to this market.
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Last edited by HarryLeach; 10-14-2011 at 10:56 AM.
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