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Old 06-04-2011, 10:24 AM   #76
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LASER GUY, you can rant all you like. That's why this forum is here. Like many others here I have been with F1 for many years and seen about everything that could mess it up for others. It's human nature to make changes that they "think" will make it better. That's how it goes. When we started our first F1 series the rules were simple. Silvercan only any Tamiya chassis or clone. A $17 540 is RC racing's best investment. We started with 3 and ended with 47. Now we allow 21.5 but nobody want's them right now because it raises the price of racing. An F1 is not a bad idea for a newbie if the other racers help them which is a rule here. People buy what they see and like. More often than not they buy a second car for another class for the same reason. We also added a class for the pancar F1's CRC, Corally, Old HPI's etc. and we let them have 17.5 just because they want the higher speeds, fine with us. Keep the car on the shelf but keep an eye on what is going on at the track...things change, people change but racing goes on no matter what. When the time is right, show them how it's done. Sic'em!
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:21 PM   #77
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Lazer I don't know if you're that far off. We both believe the same but I'll try to explain it again having been racing the class a couple years and having talked with people who have helped with it's new popularity. If you START with run what you brung you get all the guys who bought one these things a while back because they like the look but didn't have a place to race them. If on the first day you get say 5 guys who have one of the newer cars (104,109 or HPI) on rubber tires 3 guys with f103's a Corally and a HPI super all on foams youre golden. After the first week or two of racing you seperate them by them by tire or chassis and you have two good classes that may become a great class next season when you get a agreement of those who actually ran the class of how to combine the classes (all rubber or all 180 width or pure UF1). Make sure you give anyone with a F1 based chassis a chance to FIRST race then conform to the spec rules your club decides. And then as mentioned before enforce them. Trying to beat the different chassis' (f103's and F109's) is part of the challenge of the class. P.S. F109 is a monster to beat and cost $95 in most LHS. There goes the big buck theory )
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:26 PM   #78
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I've heard some very good words about the Tech racing 125 also and it will run the battery across and down the center at the same price as a 109.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:28 PM   #79
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I just wanted to note that the 103 and 104 are almost the same car, in the fact that they share quite a few parts with each other. On an open, sweeping layout the 103 wouldn't have an advantage, only on tight technical tracks where you need the car to change directions quickly. The 104 may be a bit more forgiving for a newbie to drive once they get a basic setup on it.
And Russ I think you are pretty spot on with your rant, the rules argument kis the class every time
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:02 AM   #80
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I said it before, but I'll say it again: just copy the UF1 series rule set. One "realistic" class and one "open" class. No one is "discriminated" against unless they don't meet the width requirements (and tire) for each class. No restrictions on hopups, people can run whatever chasssis they want so long as they meet the rules. Easy no? You could even adopt the more stringent TCS rules; but that limits people to only two chassis.

That being said, my reading of what Dasmopar wants, is more of a true "spec" class, where everyone has similar chassis and equipment. Nothing wrong with that, but in my experience, spec classes generally encourage more cheating. I.e., One guy will break, skirt, or test the limits of the rules; thereby causing others to follow suit.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxrich View Post
LASER GUY, you can rant all you like. That's why this forum is here. Like many others here I have been with F1 for many years and seen about everything that could mess it up for others. It's human nature to make changes that they "think" will make it better. That's how it goes. When we started our first F1 series the rules were simple. Silvercan only any Tamiya chassis or clone. A $17 540 is RC racing's best investment. We started with 3 and ended with 47. Now we allow 21.5 but nobody want's them right now because it raises the price of racing. An F1 is not a bad idea for a newbie if the other racers help them which is a rule here. People buy what they see and like. More often than not they buy a second car for another class for the same reason. We also added a class for the pancar F1's CRC, Corally, Old HPI's etc. and we let them have 17.5 just because they want the higher speeds, fine with us. Keep the car on the shelf but keep an eye on what is going on at the track...things change, people change but racing goes on no matter what. When the time is right, show them how it's done. Sic'em!
Where is it you race? I'm looking for somewhere to race weekend of the 25th / 26th June.
..... I also like your phylosophy on classes ..... if you don't mind me saying.

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Old 06-05-2011, 08:46 PM   #82
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Dasmopar,

Nice to see you starting an F1 class. I firmly believe equipment in F1 class is overated and if a person is fast in F1 it is driving, setup and tires.

A 540 mabuchi motor will give same laptimes on medium sized track as the most powerful brushed/brushless motor you can install.

And if you guys agree on using the same type of rubber tires, your racing will be very close and exciting. Irrespective of chassis, electronics, batteries, motors.

That's just my personal belief and experience (our local club has tested).



p.s. rubber tires (e.g. shimzu) are very good, feel realistic to drive, as fast as foams.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:03 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Lazer Guy View Post
I don't get it

Why are so many of you guys so worried about what 2 or 3 other guys are doing ???
Why do you guys care so much about what somebody else may or may not think ???
What gives you the right to tell someone they cant run the version of the F1 car they want to run as long as it's not in the wrong class.
If the class is defined as the "Tamiya f104 class" then if someone had something else it WOULD be the wrong class.

This thread is more about discouraging F1 racing or even on road as a whole then it is about starting it !!!! Dis Agree Completely. I don't believe any discussion to try and get this class right is not discouraging at all.



Them 3 guys you see may be having fun playing with there toy cars and could care less about what you guy are doing with your spec version, I don't see how that can be bad for RC racing as a whole !!!!
It's there $$ not yours !!!
Them 3 guys may be hoping more people will see them having fun and want to race with them and not you !!! They could care less if they win or not.

There is a reason for wanting to keep it all as one car, like this quote states below the worry is not so much about what somebody would spend but the discouragement it could cause to potential racers

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I worry how much someone thinks they need to speed to be competitive and then because of that does not race..
If we eliminated that feeling of needing to spend to be competitive we will draw more racers in. Speaking as a person who was discouraged by this when I started ten years ago I totally agree. It may sound stupid but had this been ten years ago and I knew I was running the same car as the "fast guys" it would have made me feel better about joining knowing I could have a chance to get to that level with the same car, without needing the additional carbon fiber chassis and other crazy hop-ups. The people walking by our track in the mall will not be discouraged or intimidated knowing they can get the same car as everyone else since that is what the rules will dictate. I am not argueing that the the car is what wins the race, but what I am saying is if a great driver has a decked out chasis to the on-looker who may be interested in starting into this that would be discouraging.

I agree that it will keep some people from racing if they have different cars, but for the betterment of our racing and not letting it get out of control this is the best way to proceed IMO.

Maybe two classes could be considered, one being F1 open with no limits but motor and tires, and another being the class we set up as defined with our rules as discussed (same car F104, motor, tires, bat, etc.) But that open class would become no fun in a hurry as Vector said earlier. Eventually the open class would want to divide into even more classes as and it would snowball into 8 classes with 2 guys in each.

My thoughts on your "rant"
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:51 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazer Guy View Post
I don't get it

Why are so many of you guys so worried about what 2 or 3 other guys are doing ???
Why do you guys care so much about what somebody else may or may not think ???
What gives you the right to tell someone they cant run the version of the F1 car they want to run as long as it's not in the wrong class.

This thread is more about discouraging F1 racing or even on road as a whole then it is about starting it !!!!

Them 3 guys you see may be having fun playing with there toy cars and could care less about what you guy are doing with your spec version, I don't see how that can be bad for RC racing as a whole !!!!
It's there $$ not yours !!!
Them 3 guys may be hoping more people will see them having fun and want to race with them and not you !!! They could care less if they win or not.

It would be stupid to tell a new person getting into RC to start with an F1 car.

This is the first negative post I have EVER made

You should stay on track with what chassis, motor, tires and ESC's to use for your spec F1 class that you already say you have 6 or 10 guys ready to run.

You say you have the same problem in 3 other class's, Maybe it's you, not them.

I'm putting my F1 back in the box and up on the shelf where it was It's not welcome at your track

Sorry for the rant.
And no I dont feel better now that I've made a fool of myself.....again
Russ the thing is the track always has the option of running any class so long as there are three cars willing to run together. I'm not trying to stop "those" three guys from running their own class, Just the class we are trying to get started.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:55 AM   #85
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Russ the thing is the track always has the option of running any class so long as there are three cars willing to run together. I'm not trying to stop "those" three guys from running their own class, Just the class we are trying to get started.
He would missing out, not racing with all the other cars.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:03 AM   #86
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I am honestly suprized how well this thread has been going. The idea of me starting this thread was to get ideas for a new class. From this thread alone I now feel like I'm a expert on F1 classes. lol Lots of good info., and ideas have been posted. The disagreeing is part of a good discussion.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:04 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector03cobra View Post
He would missing out, not racing with all the other cars.
I agree with you also but not everyone thinks like we do.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:39 AM   #88
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I agree with you also but not everyone thinks like we do.
I DO!
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:44 AM   #89
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Default I would like F1 at The Gate

I would also like to bring F1 to The Gate (Cleveland), Whatever rules you decide on let me know so we can follow suit.I looked at the USF1 and they look great but Im thinking foam for carpet.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:01 AM   #90
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I would also like to bring F1 to The Gate (Cleveland), Whatever rules you decide on let me know so we can follow suit.I looked at the USF1 and they look great but Im thinking foam for carpet.
As mentioned above we are going to start with a rubber tire rule I think. Should we get a car in our hands and atleast go and try and run one on rubber we might change our mind and switch over to foam. We don't know anything forsure at this point. That would be great to have the same class running at the gate though! Maybe we could do a once a month joint race for a points series? 2 races at Hobby Stop and two races at the Gate?
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